M1A or AR10?

[flightsimmer]

The M1-A,.................



Cause I already have one.

 

[indyjohn]

1,000 yd. configuration.

 

[BackFromDC]

The "Tanker" does not represent the platform well. Cutting 3.75" off the original design didn't improve the rifle.

I think it had to be a tanker to make the barrels lengths an equal comparison. I would've liked to see a 22" vs 20" showdown since that's how they were originally intended to be built.

I liked the M1A/M14 as sometimes a more modern pistol grip may not be comfortable. But it's got some big design issues since it was a cobbled together project trying to fulfill too many roles as once. Thanks JCS, always ruining everything. I know a lot of M1A/M14 haters out there would cite that as the ultimate disqualifier, but current M1As are certainly build...better? Like the stocks coming from Springfield are certainly superior than Nam era ones. Parts aren't mashed together from various contract manufactures causing spec issues.

The video didn't touch on this, and no one has mentioned this on the forum - but M1A/M14 reliability and durability is definitely superior. I mean Steel & Wood is a classic look, but also much tougher than Aluminum & Polymer. Then there's the operating rod gas cut-off that really lets it eat anything. When I tested handloads for 308, there was some loads my SA Saint AR-10 wouldn't eat but an M1A I borrowed ate it without issue.

 

[BackFromDC]

S&K scope mounts have made it simple, for over 40 years that I know of. One simple screw.

I'm not a big fan of the S&K's since I've seen too many give out. But I do like Springfield's scout mounts, they just need more long sight relief scopes on the market.

 

[Creedmoor]

I'm not a big fan of the S&K's since I've seen too many give out. But I do like Springfield's scout mounts, they just need more long sight relief scopes on the market.

What did you see give out? Ive had one since 83 or 83, the first generation. Never had a problem. I have the newer Picatinny but I've never mounted it.
I know some over tightened the mounting screw and snapped it off.
Screws snap when they are over tightened.

 

[Creedmoor]

I think it had to be a tanker to make the barrels lengths an equal comparison. I would've liked to see a 22" vs 20" showdown since that's how they were originally intended to be built.

I liked the M1A/M14 as sometimes a more modern pistol grip may not be comfortable. But it's got some big design issues since it was a cobbled together project trying to fulfill too many roles as once. Thanks JCS, always ruining everything. I know a lot of M1A/M14 haters out there would cite that as the ultimate disqualifier, but current M1As are certainly build...better? Like the stocks coming from Springfield are certainly superior than Nam era ones. Parts aren't mashed together from various contract manufactures causing spec issues.

The video didn't touch on this, and no one has mentioned this on the forum - but M1A/M14 reliability and durability is definitely superior. I mean Steel & Wood is a classic look, but also much tougher than Aluminum & Polymer. Then there's the operating rod gas cut-off that really lets it eat anything. When I tested handloads for 308, there was some loads my SA Saint AR-10 wouldn't eat but an M1A I borrowed ate it without issue.

Please explain the negatives.

 

[BackFromDC]

Please explain the negatives.

"Production of the M14 was plagued by problems, largely due to quality control lapses. Early in production there were heat treatment problems that led to sheared looking lugs and broken receivers. Once those were addressed, the main problem because one of accuracy, with a shocking number of M14s failing to meet the 5.6 MOA minimum accuracy standard."

The second part isn't a negative. It the year of our Lord 2024, there's too many design improvement to list, either on the rifle itself or in it's industrial production process. M1As are a supreme improvement over what it use to be, SA did a good job resurrecting it for the current market.

On the S&K mounts I've have one straight fall off after finishing a magazine. You see Guntubers like TFB try them and they have issues keeping zero, or just keeping on. Even Clint Smith and Jack Daniel from Thunder Ranch say they see them routinely fail. That's not to say it's bad, it's a product that adapts the M14 design for modern optics. But and adaptor is still and adaptor, and any non-native can be subject to breakage.

 

[Creedmoor]

"Production of the M14 was plagued by problems, largely due to quality control lapses. Early in production there were heat treatment problems that led to sheared looking lugs and broken receivers. Once those were addressed, the main problem because one of accuracy, with a shocking number of M14s failing to meet the 5.6 MOA minimum accuracy standard."

The second part isn't a negative. It the year of our Lord 2024, there's too many design improvement to list, either on the rifle itself or in it's industrial production process. M1As are a supreme improvement over what it use to be, SA did a good job resurrecting it for the current market.

On the S&K mounts I've have one straight fall off after finishing a magazine. You see Guntubers like TFB try them and they have issues keeping zero, or just keeping on. Even Clint Smith and Jack Daniel from Thunder Ranch say they see them routinely fail. That's not to say it's bad, it's a product that adapts the M14 design for modern optics. But and adaptor is still and adaptor, and any non-native can be subject to breakage.

Mine has never fallen off nor had any issues keeping zero. I'm gonna go with it was the fault of the installer. If it didn't work one would think that The Labowski's would stop manufacturing it with no one buying it.

I find it fascinating that I've never met anyone that was issued a M14 service rifle that ever had any complaints, and that includes family, friends, those that I served with 76-82, "plenty Marine M14 shooters still around then" and many others that I have met.
How about we talk about the failures with the now decades of Springfield Armory. With just two of my experiences with a Bolt and Op rod failure over the first 1,000 rds or so.
Want to guess what parts went back in it? Want to guess what parts are still in it?

 

[indyjohn]

The mount on the rifle pictured is a Low Profile Bassett. I followed the included mounting instructions using the included tool. After hundreds of rounds it has not lost zero or worked loose or failed in any way.

 

[BackFromDC]

Mine has never fallen off nor had any issues keeping zero. I'm gonna go with it was the fault of the installer. If it didn't work one would think that The Labowski's would stop manufacturing it with no one buying it.

I find it fascinating that I've never met anyone that was issued a M14 service rifle that ever had any complaints, and that includes family, friends, those that I served with 76-82, "plenty Marine M14 shooters still around then" and many others that I have met.
How about we talk about the failures with the now decades of Springfield Armory. With just two of my experiences with a Bolt and Op rod failure over the first 1,000 rds or so.
Want to guess what parts went back in it? Want to guess what parts are still in it?

Neither me too. I tested my friend's M1A for some loads and the only reason I can't get one is because I physically cannot cram another long long boy into the safe. Old Marines I've met, Pentagon buddies, even Taiwanese and Filipino military (them Pinoys still operate with them too) loved them. My biggest gripe with them right now is you need a Smith Enterprise adapter to get a can on

I think the complaint on JCS decisions are mostly a macro industrial complaint. Yes it's true that some op rod broke, or some extractor clicked off, or some receiver cracked...but are those parts in the room right now to hurt you? I'm sure there's S&Ks out there that stay on, but there's evidence that others have fallen off. I still stand by the SA fore end scout mount, seems optimal solution for the M14 platform.

 

[Creedmoor]

The mount on the rifle pictured is a Low Profile Bassett. I followed the included mounting instructions using the included tool. After hundreds of rounds it has not lost zero or worked loose or failed in any way.

Oh please, I learned here it should have snapped a few screws off , fallen off a few times and not returned to zero if removed and reinstalled.
You like me must have gotten, defective single screw scope mounts.

 

[Creedmoor]

Neither me too. I tested my friend's M1A for some loads and the only reason I can't get one is because I physically cannot cram another long long boy into the safe. Old Marines I've met, Pentagon buddies, even Taiwanese and Filipino military (them Pinoys still operate with them too) loved them. My biggest gripe with them right now is you need a Smith Enterprise adapter to get a can on

I think the complaint on JCS decisions are mostly a macro industrial complaint. Yes it's true that some op rod broke, or some extractor clicked off, or some receiver cracked...but are those parts in the room right now to hurt you? I'm sure there's S&Ks out there that stay on, but there's evidence that others have fallen off. I still stand by the SA fore end scout mount, seems optimal solution for the M14 platform.

The new Springfield Armory built op rods and bolts failed at huge rates back in the 80'd and 90's. The op rods bent and the bolts front roller bearing wore through the cast pin that they mounted on. Been there done that.

The best improvement for a M1A is to replace all new made Springfield Armory parts with those horrible interchangeable out of spec American built GI parts.

 

[BackFromDC]

The new Springfield Armory built op rods and bolts failed at huge rates back in the 80'd and 90's. The op rods bent and the bolts front roller bearing wore through the cast pin that they mounted on. Been there done that.

The best improvement for a M1A is to replace all new made Springfield Armory parts with those horrible interchangeable out of spec American built GI parts.

If you say so...but statistics and history do not substantiate that assessment. Even current M14 ERBs switched out of USGI contract parts to Smith Enterprises.

 

[Creedmoor]

If you say so...but statistics and history do not substantiate that assessment. Even current M14 ERBs switched out of USGI contract parts to Smith Enterprises.

You mean this upgrade?

M14/M1A Trigger Group Upgrade​

Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 1 customer rating
(1 customer review)


This upgrade includes replacing the hammer pin, trigger pin and hammer spring. The weight of the trigger pull will be brought down to a crisp 4.5 pounds. Replacement of cast parts is an option at an additional cost
Please fill out the form in the services page, submit and print to include with your trigger job (Enter any charcter in the Make, Model and Serial Number fields)
Price $130

Looks like GI parts are fine with Smith, Cast Springfield Armory or Chinese parts not so much.

 

[BackFromDC]

You mean this upgrade?

M14/M1A Trigger Group Upgrade​

Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 1 customer rating
(1 customer review)


This upgrade includes replacing the hammer pin, trigger pin and hammer spring. The weight of the trigger pull will be brought down to a crisp 4.5 pounds. Replacement of cast parts is an option at an additional cost
Please fill out the form in the services page, submit and print to include with your trigger job (Enter any charcter in the Make, Model and Serial Number fields)
Price $130

Looks like GI parts are fine with Smith, Cast Springfield Armory or Chinese parts not so much.

Ok...but this is one customer review among the several thousands of tests the DoD Comptroller did. I'm sure SA got plenty of happy M1A customers, but engineering and customer service are two different things. The 1962 Hitch Report says a lot otherwise after they tested 7 rifles from each producer.

Now, I don't agree with everything the comptroller says...because its been almost 3 whole human generations...but to say 1 customer review outweighs several decades of infantry small arms research and auditing is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Robert Richardson]

M1a, why settle for a another boring AR style rifle that everyone else has?

 

[Creedmoor]

Ok...but this is one customer review among the several thousands of tests the DoD Comptroller did. I'm sure SA got plenty of happy M1A customers, but engineering and customer service are two different things. The 1962 Hitch Report says a lot otherwise after they tested 7 rifles from each producer.

Now, I don't agree with everything the comptroller says...because its been almost 3 whole human generations...but to say 1 customer review outweighs several decades of infantry small arms research and auditing is a bit of a stretch.

This is off Smiths website to send in a trigger pack in and get it upgraded to a better trigger pull.
I see nothing on Smiths website for Smith Engineering M14 trigger parts like hammers, triggers and so on.

 

[2tonic]

Screw 'em both, and get a real M1, a Garand.....
'Cause if you're shootin' at hoomans, nothing says FU like the "ping".
It's like an exclamation point on a volley.
"Here's 8 hot ones to the face, and take that!"

 

[Creedmoor]

Screw 'em both, and get a real M1, a Garand.....
'Cause if you're shootin' at hoomans, nothing says FU like the "ping".
It's like an exclamation point on a volley.
"Here's 8 hot ones to the face, and take that!"

Get off my lawn punk!!!!

 

[INP8riot]

This is my M1a Loaded with iron sights. I was too impatient to wait for my scope mount. I was developing hand loads and mainly testing velocities, but ended up with a nice group!