LTCH: Expired... :(

[lovemachine]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure Roadie was a criminal already.

No background checks for INGO MODS?

 

[Roadie]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure Roadie was a criminal already.

Oddly enough, even with my past.. I don't have a criminal record lol

 

[scottka]

No background checks for INGO MODS?

No, He got hired at the last 1500, fully utilizing the "gun show loophole!"

 

[Roadie]

No, He got hired at the last 1500, fully utilizing the "gun show loophole!"

well played

 

[Bill B]

In Morton v Indiana Mr Morton was convicted of possesion without being licensed. His licensed had expired two days prior to his arrest. On appeal he made the claim:

that the evidence was insufficient to support his conviction because he testified that he had attempted to have his expired handgun permit renewed.

(after it had expired)
The courts said:

Accepting Morton's testimony on its face, he simply did not testify that he applied for a renewal within thirty days of the expiration of his license. And even if he had testified that he had applied to renew his license within thirty days of the expiration date of his old license, the trial court was under no obligation to believe him.
Conclusion:
Morton's handgun permit had expired, albeit only shortly before he was arrested. Thus, Morton did not have a valid license to carry a handgun. The evidence was sufficient to support his conviction for carrying a handgun without a license.

(emphasis added)
So, the test case has already been decided. Once it's expired, your S.O.L. and cannot carry until you get your new LTCH.

 

[scottka]

Bill, thanks for the post. I don't believe I e ever seen that case cited. Repped!

 

[Roadie]

Again I say..

Well CRAP

 

[92ThoStro]

Well it looks like in that case he said he was trying to apply, not that he did apply. And it said they are under no obligation to believe him, even if he did apply. However, they don't have to believe him for his word, his lawyer can submit evidence that he did. If he was convicted the first time, it would be reversed on appeal. That case looks like it is showing proof that the wording includes the 30 days after expiration, as " within 30 days " not only 30 days before expiration. Otherwise why not just say before?

That isn't really a good test case, because he didn't apply before being arrested. He tried to lie and say he did, and he had no proof. If I am reading that correctly.

The issue in this thread is if Roadie applies for renewal RIGHT NOW, and the gets arrested on say Wednesday, that the IC protects him because he renewed within 30 days. It doesn't say before expiration, within is before or after. Maybe Kirk could chime in or something.

Not like the guy in that case, get arrested and say " oh well I was trying to renew "

There is no "tried" or "trying" to renew. The only way that makes sense if if he was renewing at the exact moment he was arrested. Either you did renew, or you didn't. And that guy didn't.

I'm sure if Roadie is arrested that he could use his Mod powers to force Guy or Kirk to represent him anyway.

I know I wouldn't wait until I receive the physical renewed card to start carrying. That old saying on here, better to spend a limited time in jail than to spend an unlimited time in the grave. But I wouldn't expect Roadie to admit anything lol.

 

[Bill B]

When you read the entire ruling, it reads as if you must apply before it expires. I didn't post the entire ruling because of licensing for the database, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.
IANAL.

 

[92ThoStro]

When you read the entire ruling, it reads as if you must apply before it expires. I didn't post the entire ruling because of licensing for the database, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.
IANAL.

Thanks, do you pay a subscription? I have seen you mention that database on numerous occasions. I was just going by this statement

And even if he had testified that he had applied to renew his license within thirty days of the expiration date of his old license, the trial court was under no obligation to believe him.

 

[Roadie]

Thanks, do you pay a subscription? I have seen you mention that database on numerous occasions. I was just going by this statement

The "no obligation to believe him" would seem to suggest he did not have proof of the application..

 

[Bill B]

Thanks, do you pay a subscription? I have seen you mention that database on numerous occasions. I was just going by this statement

I have academic access through school (purdue university-calumet), which means I can use it for research and unpublished academic papers, but cannot repost or reprint.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

In Morton v Indiana Mr Morton was convicted of possesion without being licensed. His licensed had expired two days prior to his arrest. On appeal he made the claim:
(after it had expired)
The courts said:
(emphasis added)
So, the test case has already been decided. Once it's expired, your S.O.L. and cannot carry until you get your new LTCH.

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/02281209pdm.pdf

Note on the first page of the decision, "Pursuant to Ind.Appellate Rule 65(D), this
Memorandum Decision shall not be
regarded as precedent or cited before any
court except for the purpose of establishing
the defense of res judicata, collateral
estoppel, or the law of the case."

So this is far from a test case. They didn't even address if the 30 days before or after was relevant, just said it was a "liberal reading of the renewal statute". This case really does nothing to answer if the 30 days has to be before the license expires or not.

 

[LANShark42]

1. Apply for your renewal.
2. Obtain and carry old licence and renewal application.
3. Continue to carry normally.
4. Keep Guy Relford on your speed-dial.

IANAL but Guy is - (See step 4)

 

[Roadie]

1. Apply for your renewal.
2. Obtain and carry old licence and renewal application.
3. Continue to carry normally.
4. Keep Guy Relford on your speed-dial.

IANAL but Guy is - (See step 4)

Since it is expired, will it be a "renewal", or would I have to start over again as others have said?

 

[MikeDVB]

Since it is expired, will it be a "renewal", or would I have to start over again as others have said?

If they let you apply for renewal - then you should legally be good to go due to the vagueness of the statute. If they don't let you renew and force you to apply for a *new* license - you will not be able to carry until you get the new license.

That said, I'm not a lawyer - but admittedly the statute is fairly simple.

 

[LANShark42]

Since it is expired, will it be a "renewal", or would I have to start over again as others have said?

Another reason for #4...

 

[Roadie]

If they let you apply for renewal - then you should legally be good to go due to the vagueness of the statute. If they don't let you renew and force you to apply for a *new* license - you will not be able to carry until you get the new license.

That said, I'm not a lawyer - but admittedly the statute is fairly simple.

Right, and if I apply for a renewal, and they deny me, i have to start all over, again, after waiting for the denial...

ugh

 

[Scutter01]

I think you should just go ahead and carry anyway, and if The Man tries to stop you, yell "I HAVE A GUN!"

 

[Hammerhead]

Don't listen to Scutter. You have to yell "I have a gun and I know how to use it!"