LTCH Delays, Blown off by ISP...help?

[Scutter01]

however you did get me thinking, what do you think would be the reaction if i just walked around with a loaded 870 on my back until they issue me my license?

I think you'd be even more likely to get a MWG call than if you were OC'ing a pistol.

 

[ATM]

Nice conversation starter though!

 

[esrice]

This makes me wonder if the law is 60 business days or 60 calendar days. If it is 60 business day then (The Meach) may still have some time to wait with all the holidays. Anyone have clarification on this?

Here ya go:

IC 35-47-2-6
Granting or rejecting initial application; renewals
Sec. 6. (a) Every initial application for any license under this chapter shall be granted or rejected within sixty (60) days after the application is filed.

Keep in mind that that state has 60 days to make a decision, NOT put the LTCH in your hands. After the decision they could presumably take quite a while.

Good luck!

 

[bft131]

A couple of things, the State of Indiana has slashed office staff to the bone. For the entire state there are only 2 people working in the fire & EMS certification offices. That office serves over 15,000 EMT's / Medics and FF's in the State.

Now, with all the LTC's permits that ISP is being swamped with, how many people do you think work in that office? Probably not more the 5-6.

My wife and I applied for our LTLTC, Nov. 18th, we recieved them toward the end of January.

 

[AFA1CY]

A couple of things, the State of Indiana has slashed office staff to the bone. For the entire state there are only 2 people working in the fire & EMS certification offices. That office serves over 15,000 EMT's / Medics and FF's in the State.

Now, with all the LTC's permits that ISP is being swamped with, how many people do you think work in that office? Probably not more the 5-6.

My wife and I applied for our LTLTC, Nov. 18th, we recieved them toward the end of January.

While I feel their pain, the law is the law.

 

[Lakefield22]

While I feel their pain, the law is the law.

Agreed. Honestly, I doubt staffing is so much an issue as the fact that they just have a crappy process for entering and issueing the licenses. Besides how annoying it is for citizens to have to wait unreasonably long for them to send them cheap printed license, I almost gurantee you a huge amount of money is wasted on double handling, manuel entry and batching. I believe if people remain vocale about this eventually someone (hopefully) will take notice and address the issue (it would be a good opportunity for an elected official to gain so support). Remaining silent and making excuses for poor service and slow processing won't change anything.

 

[dross]

The larger principle at stake is that the government should have to follow the same laws it enforces. So, let's say they're swamped - enact a temporary provision that says after 60 days with no word, the applicant can assume it will be issued and proceed to carry. No, it's not going to happen, but you can see that it's possible to mitigate the fact that the State can't obey its own laws.

Tell them you're swamped, so you just can't manage to obey some law they are enforcing and see how far that gets you.

 

[The Meach]

I'm sure they would respond well to me telling them that I just can't seem to find the time to do my Taxes. I'm just Swamped.

 

[esrice]

The larger principle at stake is that the government should have to follow the same laws it enforces.

Again, the law says they have 60 days to make a decision-- not 60 days to print a license and put it in your hands. I believe the backlog has to do with the physical issuing process, not accepting or denying applications.

I could be wrong though. I've been wrong once before.

 

[AFA1CY]

Again, the law says they have 60 days to make a decision-- not 60 days to print a license and put it in your hands. I believe the backlog has to do with the physical issuing process, not accepting or denying applications.

I could be wrong though. I've been wrong once before.

From the IC:

IC 35-47-2-6
Granting or rejecting initial application; renewals
Sec. 6. (a) Every initial application for any license under this chapter shall be granted or rejected within sixty (60) days after the application is filed.
(b) The period during which an application for the renewal of an existing license may be filed begins one hundred eighty (180) days before the expiration of the existing license. If the application for renewal of an existing license is filed within thirty (30) days of its expiration, the existing license is automatically extended until the application for renewal is passed upon.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.190-2006, SEC.4.

So if a license is granted that means it is valid. For a license to be valid you must have it in your posession per the IC. Therefore the state (ISP) has to grant the license within 60 days of your application hitting their desk. If we follow the logic of granting vs printing then an unfriendly ISP superintendent could "grant" licenses and never bother printing them. I think the intent of the law was for you to have a valid license in your hands within 60 days of application. At least in my opinion.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Here ya go:

IC 35-47-2-6
Granting or rejecting initial application; renewals
Sec. 6. (a) Every initial application for any license under this chapter shall be granted or rejected within sixty (60) days after the application is filed.

Getting in a uproar and not paying attention to the above will get you nothing but spinning your wheels and digging your heels in the dirt for nothing. The law only says it will granted or rejected, it does not give a time frame for when it'll be in your mailbox.

That said, I got my last renewal a year and a half ago with a lifetime license, and it took 10 weeks, seven weeks longer than what it took 4 years earlier.

There are things that have greatly increased the waiting time for a permit to be on your person, the 200 to 300% or more increase in new permits, the budget slash that have increased the workload for the few who are doing the process, and with that the increased time it takes to have fingerprint ID processed and relayed back, they've been hit with cutbacks at the FBI also. It's one big assembly line and all it takes is a nut to fall off to hamper or slow down the whole thing. The problem is more than a nut has fallen off, and the line is being pushed as fast as it can humanly be with the increased amounts of apps.

They have to be meticulous and make sure it's right the first time because if not a person who should not get a permit will and that would have disastrous effects with a public upheaval from the liberal left on our ability to have a LTCH.

Now this all could have a mute point if the application was done in August before the huge influx of new permit apps hit the offices and you'd now have that permit in hand instead of being mad and waiting.

Just my

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
Now this all could have a mute point if the application was done in August before the huge influx of new permit apps hit the offices and you'd now have that permit in hand instead of being mad and waiting.

Just my

FWIW, some of us would have loved to have dropped our apps in the mail for renewal back in August, but the damn Democraps threw that little provision in as an 11th hour dig at gun owners, not permitting renewal more than 180 days prior to expiration.

Had HB 1126 gotten a hearing and passed this legislative session, I would have been first in line as of July 1, 2009 to renew mine; since it did not, my app goes in for renewal in December of this year. Unfortunately, Rep. Bauer assigned it to a committee that never met to consider the 75 pieces of legislation assigned to them. That SOB needs to be voted out of office.

Bill

 

[duffer426]

permit

applied the first week in january,got it today the 28th feb. i think i read on here that it could take up to 12 wks.

 

[IndyBeerman]

FWIW, some of us would have loved to have dropped our apps in the mail for renewal back in August, but the damn Democraps threw that little provision in as an 11th hour dig at gun owners, not permitting renewal more than 180 days prior to expiration.

Had HB 1126 gotten a hearing and passed this legislative session, I would have been first in line as of July 1, 2009 to renew mine; since it did not, my app goes in for renewal in December of this year. Unfortunately, Rep. Bauer assigned it to a committee that never met to consider the 75 pieces of legislation assigned to them. That SOB needs to be voted out of office.

Bill

Bill the key word in your statement is "renewal", you have a license, you're legal to carry. The OP is not currently a license holder so there was
nothing preventing him from applying.

So while Rep Bauer is an ass (as we all know) and assigned HB 1126 to a committee that did not convene to meet it duly appointed duty to us as representatives of this great state, it has no effect on NEW applications which is the case of this thread.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bill the key word in your statement is "renewal", you have a license, you're legal to carry. The OP is not currently a license holder so there was
nothing preventing him from applying.

So while Rep Bauer is an ass (as we all know) and assigned HB 1126 to a committee that did not convene to meet it duly appointed duty to us as representatives of this great state, it has no effect on NEW applications which is the case of this thread.

Good point, and thank you. Additionally, I went back to look and see the actual bill. Apparently, I was mistaken. I'd been told by a legislator (whom I will not name) that that 180 day thing was added in at the last. This is in error. The archives at in.gov/legislative show clearly that the 180 day renewal provision was included in the bill as originally introduced.

Further, I know that my own sheriff's office told me when I went in to apply that I could "renew" to a Lifetime LTCH as soon as it became legal to do so, yet this is not true either, nor was it when they told me that. I was not yet savvy enough at the time to go look it up and until now, the idea to do so did not occur to me. I apologize for having misled the members here through my own ignorance and wish now to set the record straight.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Chefcook]

As I was sitting here reading over this thread with my lady she brought up what may be a valid point. She works for the dept of work force development and says that. The state cannot hold up required licensing that is related to your occupation, unless there is a criminal issue involved, it is supposed be expedited. The reason for this being that if you lose your job because you cant acquire or lose said licensing you are not eligible for benefits. Unless you can prove that failure to acquire the license was beyond your control. Now this may not seem relevant as this is not about losing a job but about advancing in a currant position. It is relevant because, no state agency wants to be responsible (especially in this economy) for an employed Indiana resident to not be able to advance in their career... I don't know if this is helpful just another option as to a possible course of action. You might be able to get the DWD to light a fire under their ass...

 

[Griffeycom]

Just to send this out here...when I contacted my state rep they replied with this bit of email they got from ISP when they inquired about my..inquiry

Since the presidential election we have received a huge increase of handgun applications. Prior to November we would receive 1 to 3 boxes a day. We now are receiving 4 to 8 boxes daily. We have had to hire 3 temporary clerks to assist in processing the applications.

 

[indy77]

Meach, I noticed you live in Hamilton county, I also applied about the same time which was Dec.3 I applied for a lifetime license and was assuming that was the reason for the length of time to get it. I have had a LTCH for a long time and it has never taken this long before. I got it Wed. 2/25 exactly 12 weeks to the day. If they are that far behind yours should be coming any day now.

 

[The Meach]

Now this all could have a mute point if the application was done in August before the huge influx of new permit apps hit the offices and you'd now have that permit in hand instead of being mad and waiting.

Just my

I feel you this argument and if i had seen this bureaucratic clusterf@%k on the horizon this i defiantly would have applied earlier. The reason i held off was well I just turned 21 on the 10th of January so by my reasoning at the time applying earlier would have been pointless. I've since learned better. In my short career of governmental licensing my only real basis for experience was obtaining my drivers licence (a quick easy and painless process) and assumed getting my LTCH would be the same (or even easier seeing as driving is a privlage and gun ownership is a right, plus we are a "shall issue" state)

...i guess i assumed wrong

The state cannot hold up required licensing that is related to your occupation, unless there is a criminal issue involved, it is supposed be expedited. The reason for this being that if you lose your job because you cant acquire or lose said licensing you are not eligible for benefits. Unless you can prove that failure to acquire the license was beyond your control. Now this may not seem relevant as this is not about losing a job but about advancing in a currant position. It is relevant because, no state agency wants to be responsible (especially in this economy) for an employed Indiana resident to not be able to advance in their career... .

I'm gonna call again on monday, and if nothing has changed i'm think i may try and keep them on the phone long enough to bring this up

Meach, I noticed you live in Hamilton county, I also applied about the same time which was Dec.3 I applied for a lifetime license and was assuming that was the reason for the length of time to get it. I have had a LTCH for a long time and it has never taken this long before. I got it Wed. 2/25 exactly 12 weeks to the day. If they are that far behind yours should be coming any day now.

I hope so man, i have 6 days (march 7th) to have this thing in my hand. if not i'm gonna have to wait till mid july

 

[Bill of Rights]

Meach, you might also contact your CLEO and/or show a copy of his/her signature on your LTCH paperwork. With IN being shall-issue, you having no record, and your CLEO signing off, the fact that you're getting your LTCH is a given. Maybe your employer would consider assigning you to the new job pending arrival of the license. Lastly, though your name going into the system is one of the last steps, you might call them and ask what date they're processing now, as that would at least give you an idea as to the time frame until yours arrives. Good luck, and

Blessings,
Bill