Lowering the drunk driving standard to .05%

[churchmouse]

You have to figure in all the classes/community service/lawyer/missed work/SR-22 insurance on your license/loss of job if you need license to work ie. company vehicle. The list is endless and it usually runs $7500 after all is said and done.
Never got the "Award" for DUI but idiot son did as have many friends.

Edit....the lawyers and classes are the revenue stream.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

No law will coerce the irresponsible to become responsible, and the responsible already are responsible. Just setting the bar lower to cast the nets ever wider. If you cannot deprive a man of liberty or property because he has done no wrong, re-categorize and re-define "wrong" itself.

 

[red_zr24x4]

They could always match the CDL holder limit of .04

^^This right here. Since I have my CDL my limit is lower than every one elses even when driving my personal vehicle.

 

[mbills2223]

But what about all the people pulled over for suspicion who are 0.05-.1? Was it coincidental that they were swerving and had an inconsequential amount of alcohol in their system?

That actually would have made a good expansion on my original post, I wish I had thought to post it. It's really not a good measure on either end of the spectrum. Some are sober at .08, while some are stupid drunk at .05. I put more faith in a properly administered field sobriety test than BAC test in regards to intoxication, but that would never fly.

 

[Double T]

That actually would have made a good expansion on my original post, I wish I had thought to post it. It's really not a good measure on either end of the spectrum. Some are sober at .08, while some are stupid drunk at .05. I put more faith in a properly administered field sobriety test than BAC test in regards to intoxication, but that would never fly.

Do it in front of the dash camera, and have another officer corroborate on the arrest, and it would hold up.

BAC is a pretty stupid judge of intoxication IMHO. Why not just make operating a vehicle with any alcohol in your system illegal? you technically would be operating under the influence right?

 

[mbills2223]

Do it in front of the dash camera, and have another officer corroborate on the arrest, and it would hold up.

BAC is a pretty stupid judge of intoxication IMHO. Why not just make operating a vehicle with any alcohol in your system illegal? you technically would be operating under the influence right?

Who is to say the alcohol is actually influencing anything? I've got some pretty dumb friends, but I don't let THEM influence me I'm with you, but I think some might get their panties in a bunch over it and make it into an us vs. them thing. Maybe not, I'm not very good at gauging public opinion :dunno I sure think it's the best measure.

 

[Double T]

Who is to say the alcohol is actually influencing anything? I've got some pretty dumb friends, but I don't let THEM influence me I'm with you, but I think some might get their panties in a bunch over it and make it into an us vs. them thing. Maybe not, I'm not very good at gauging public opinion :dunno I sure think it's the best measure.

The whole blood levels are a stupid gauge IMHO. My FIL drinks 6 beers a day before bed, I doubt his level of intoxication is .08, or even .1

 

[hornadylnl]

Do it in front of the dash camera, and have another officer corroborate on the arrest, and it would hold up.

BAC is a pretty stupid judge of intoxication IMHO. Why not just make operating a vehicle with any alcohol in your system illegal? you technically would be operating under the influence right?

I'm sure the bar lobby might fight that.

 

[mbills2223]

I'm sure the bar lobby might fight that.

Why?

 

[j706]

The whole blood levels are a stupid gauge IMHO. My FIL drinks 6 beers a day before bed, I doubt his level of intoxication is .08, or even .1

They would be around .12 most likely. The daily drinker just handles .12 better than the novice that is at .05 IMO. I have had many a hard core drunk do pretty well on SFST's. But that HGN is a sure thing that no body is going to skate on.

BTW I hate doing OWI's with a passion. More paper work than a murder arrest.

 

[mbills2223]

They would be around .12 most likely. The daily drinker just handles .12 better than the novice that is at .05 IMO. I have had many a hard core drunk do pretty well on SFST's. But that HGN is a sure thing that no body is going to skate on.

BTW I hate doing OWI's with a passion. More paper work than a murder arrest.

Is the check for nystagmus (I assume this is what you were talking about with HGN) considered separate from the field sobriety test by law enforcement? I always assumed it was considered part of it. Either way, I agree that this should always be a part of a suspected DWI/DUI/OWI (, whatever it's called) stop.

 

[VUPDblue]

HGN is part of the SFSTs. I dont mind doing OVWI arrests and as such, I do more than my fair share. I am also a member of AAID and I volunteer many hours to their organization.
The problem with giving the SFSTs more weight than a BAC test is that they are subjective. The BAC test is hard and fast evidence that has judicial notice. That said, I believe the SFSTs are a greater indicator of impairment than a persons level of intoxication on a numbers scale. This is precisely why my probable cause statements are very long and detailed, especially about the suspect's behavior.

 

[merotek]

Don't drink and drive.

If you think you can have a few and you are ok to drive you are stupid. Not all laws are passed to encroach on your personal freedoms, some make a lot of sense.

 

[mbills2223]

HGN is part of the SFSTs. I dont mind doing OVWI arrests and as such, I do more than my fair share. I am also a member of AAID and I volunteer many hours to their organization.
The problem with giving the SFSTs more weight than a BAC test is that they are subjective. The BAC test is hard and fast evidence that has judicial notice. That said, I believe the SFSTs are a greater indicator of impairment than a persons level of intoxication on a numbers scale. This is precisely why my probable cause statements are very long and detailed, especially about the suspect's behavior.

That was my concern. I would imagine it would throw a pretty big legal hurdle for booking drunk drivers. Do you see the SFST being used as evidence in cases to prove that a driver was drunk/sober when the BAC indicated otherwise? I'm just curious as to the weight it carries currently.

Oh, and good on you for your efforts

 

[hornadylnl]

That was my concern. I would imagine it would throw a pretty big legal hurdle for booking drunk drivers. Do you see the SFST being used as evidence in cases to prove that a driver was drunk/sober when the BAC indicated otherwise? I'm just curious as to the weight it carries currently.

Oh, and good on you for your efforts

SFST was about the only evidence the prosecution had on a trial that I served on the jury. The driver was on prescription medications with no alcohol in his system. The arresting LEO greatly embellished his interpretation of the tests compared to what the dash cam showed and had his ass handed to him by a rookie defense attorney for doing so.

You better believe that the prosecution thinks that SFST's are hard proof of intoxication.

 

[mbills2223]

SFST was about the only evidence the prosecution had on a trial that I served on the jury. The driver was on prescription medications with no alcohol in his system. The arresting LEO greatly embellished his interpretation of the tests compared to what the dash cam showed and had his ass handed to him by a rookie defense attorney for doing so.

You better believe that the prosecution thinks that SFST's are hard proof of intoxication.

Glad to hear it

 

[VUPDblue]

I would most definitely arrest based on SFSTs only if the suspect failed them horribly. I would also get a blood draw for a tox screen and have a DRE assist in the investigation. Meds/drugs can also cause impairment and wouldn't register on an alcohol test.

 

[hornadylnl]

Glad to hear it

To hear the prosecution and arresting officer tell it during he trial, the defendant was mere seconds from mowing down a school yard full of children. Only problem was the dash cam footage didn't jive with the officer's testimony. Had it not been for the dash van footage, we'd probably have voted to convict. There's no reason in this day and age not to have dash cam footage.

 

[Bunnykid68]

No law will coerce the irresponsible to become responsible, and the responsible already are responsible. Just setting the bar lower to cast the nets ever wider. If you cannot deprive a man of liberty or property because he has done no wrong, re-categorize and re-define "wrong" itself.

I don't know about that. Lot of stupid **** I might do if I didn't have to contend with getting in trouble for some injury that may happen to someone.

 

[stephen87]

But what about all the people pulled over for suspicion who are 0.05-.1? Was it coincidental that they were swerving and had an inconsequential amount of alcohol in their system?

Absolutely. They were reaching for their phone or trying to miss something in the road, right?

The whole blood levels are a stupid gauge IMHO. My FIL drinks 6 beers a day before bed, I doubt his level of intoxication is .08, or even .1

Level of intoxication is different than BAC. I don't drink. If I were to drink 2 beers, I would probably be a little tipsy or more. However, if I did drink and drank 2 beers, I would probably be okay. In both examples, provided I ate the same thing, my BAC would be pretty close to identical but my level of intoxication would be different.