Lock up your f'n guns!

[88GT]

Yes, i have heard such stories over the years of people getting robbed, and oh, guess what got stollen, yep my gun. Could'nt agree more, if you are gonna have guns be prepared to take on the true responsibility... lock em up.

My truck was stolen in 2011. An 8000# Superduty. Am I responsible if the illegals that stole it get drunk and drive as they are wont to do and cause someone's death?

Ok, another note: Even if you have a gun locked with a cable lock in your house, I dont think thats good enough. A criminal or other person can still take your gun cut the lock off and now they have a gun. You must protect it when not within your care or on your person in a secured safe. In my opinion, I dont see responsible gun ownership any other way.
Ok you want to protect your house at night with your gun, fine take it with you to bed. You get up in the morning and discover everything is ok, now lock that bad boy up or put it in your holster and take it with you.

We all have different ideas about what's responsible and acceptable. I think every parent who sends his child to the government schools (guys, don't make this that argument; it's just for illustrative purposes) is abdicated his parental responsibility and utilizing another form of welfare. Using the government for a babysitter! How much more irresponsible can one be!

And im sure this will touch a nerve too, but do you really need a gun everywhere in your house? That's paranoia to me. I dont know what the statistic would be, but I would be willing to bet you are more likely to have an accidental shooting or theft that way.

If that's your logic, then you must have a lot of computers/tablets because you just shot your mouth off!

 

[gunslinger762]

My buddy has a book on the way with stats on guns, real stats. Im not sure something like that would be in there, but we will see what is and I will try to share. Dont get me wrong I am not what you would term a liberal at all, very far from it. I love my guns... I just see these incidents happening and wonder what "could" have been done. In my opinion responsible gun ownership to the "best of our ability." Thats all im saying.

 

[gunslinger762]

Im saying do your best to control and secure what you would naturally and logically deem within your control of a powerful but small thing that you should be able to control with your greater reasonable ability.

 

[buckstopshere]

My buddy has a book on the way with stats on guns, real stats. Im not sure something like that would be in there, but we will see what is and I will try to share. Dont get me wrong I am not what you would term a liberal at all, very far from it. I love my guns... I just see these incidents happening and wonder what "could" have been done. In my opinion responsible gun ownership to the "best of our ability." Thats all im saying.

Believe it or not, there are liberals out there that own firearms and support the 2A. Loving guns doesn't automatically mean you're not a liberal.

You certainly seem hell bent on telling others what to do with their property in their own home, passing judgment on gun owners who feel they want a gun in every room as paranoid, citing stats that you have no idea if are true and of course, you know best because you can see what "could" have been

Maybe you're not a liberal but you certainly sound like one. Although many "conservatives" have made similar statements. One things for sure, you're not making statements consistent with someone who is a supporter of liberty.

 

[Dauvis]

Although many "conservatives" have made similar statements. One things for sure, you're not making statements consistent with someone who is a supporter of liberty.

Personal responsibility and accountability are also conservative concepts. Up to a certain point, accountability and liberty are at odds with each other.

As an example of what I mean, consider a private swimming pool at a person's house. It is no question that a home owner can have a pool (liberty). However, the home owner is responsible if a trespassing child drowns in it (accountability) The reason I say it is at odds is because the home owner is required to ensure that the pool is secured from trespassers.

When it comes to guns, what does properly secured mean? IMHO, it seems like to me it is a subjective definition based on the circumstances and needs of the gun owner. I would not be surprised if the definition of a single person who lives out in the sticks would be the same as a person who lives in the suburbs and regularly has small children running around.

 

[buckstopshere]

Personal responsibility and accountability are also conservative concepts. Up to a certain point, accountability and liberty are at odds with each other.

As an example of what I mean, consider a private swimming pool at a person's house. It is no question that a home owner can have a pool (liberty). However, the home owner is responsible if a trespassing child drowns in it (accountability) The reason I say it is at odds is because the home owner is required to ensure that the pool is secured from trespassers.

When it comes to guns, what does properly secured mean? IMHO, it seems like to me it is a subjective definition based on the circumstances and needs of the gun owner. I would not be surprised if the definition of a single person who lives out in the sticks would be the same as a person who lives in the suburbs and regularly has small children running around.

And this is exactly why I can't hang my hat in the "conservative" camp.

So I have a pool, a child (or anyone for that matter) trespasses on my property, gets into or falls into my pool and drowns and you call that me being accountable? You've got that so backward it's laughable. The accountable would fall to the person trespassing around my pool to begin with. If it was a child, why are the parents not keeping an eye on them? Why did they not teach them to keep out of other people's yards? Why didn't they teach them about being safe around a pool? If it was one of my daughters who died in a pool on someone else's property, I would be devastated but I would not be angry with the homeowner.

Same thing with the firearm. Unless you have my permission to handle one of my weapons, KYFHO. If you choose to pick it up and bad things happen, again, you weren't supposed to touch it, the accountability is on you, not me.

Liberty and accountability do not have to be in conflict. Your perception of who is accountable is the conflict.

 

[Bunnykid68]

And this is exactly why I can't hang my hat in the "conservative" camp.

So I have a pool, a child (or anyone for that matter) trespasses on my property, gets into or falls into my pool and drowns and you call that me being accountable? You've got that so backward it's laughable. The accountable would fall to the person trespassing around my pool to begin with. If it was a child, why are the parents not keeping an eye on them? Why did they not teach them to keep out of other people's yards? Why didn't they teach them about being safe around a pool? If it was one of my daughters who died in a pool on someone else's property, I would be devastated but I would not be angry with the homeowner.

Same thing with the firearm. Unless you have my permission to handle one of my weapons, KYFHO. If you choose to pick it up and bad things happen, again, you weren't supposed to touch it, the accountability is on you, not me.

Liberty and accountability do not have to be in conflict. Your perception of who is accountable is the conflict.

Couldn't have said it better muself, OK, maybe a little better

 

[HoughMade]

I suppose it depends on what the end goal is. I agree as to legal liability....but is avoiding legal liability all we are after?

If the goal is keeping guns out of the hands of criminal (and thereby retaining our own property) or, in the example, keeping kids from dying in pools, then maybe we should consider something more than the lowest level legal requirements as our practice.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Liberty and accountability do not have to be in conflict. Your perception of who is accountable is the conflict.

Repeated for emphasis.


Liberty and accountability are inseparable.

 

[88GT]

My buddy has a book on the way with stats on guns, real stats. Im not sure something like that would be in there, but we will see what is and I will try to share. Dont get me wrong I am not what you would term a liberal at all, very far from it. I love my guns... I just see these incidents happening and wonder what "could" have been done. In my opinion responsible gun ownership to the "best of our ability." Thats all im saying.

No, you've been telling us that we have to lock them according to your standards, what you deem "best."

Up to a certain point, accountability and liberty are at odds with each other.

No, they aren't.

As an example of what I mean, consider a private swimming pool at a person's house. It is no question that a home owner can have a pool (liberty). However, the home owner is responsible if a trespassing child drowns in it (accountability) The reason I say it is at odds is because the home owner is required to ensure that the pool is secured from trespassers.

Your analogy is flawed. You introduce rules that you think are synonymous with accountability. Accountability is accepting the consequences of an outcome. It is not the attempt to control those outcomes.

 

[buckstopshere]

Couldn't have said it better muself, OK, maybe a little better

Lol

Dude, I have to communicate for a living so I put so little effort on INGO. I just rant. It's refreshing

 

[Dauvis]

So I have a pool, a child (or anyone for that matter) trespasses on my property, gets into or falls into my pool and drowns and you call that me being accountable? You've got that so backward it's laughable. The accountable would fall to the person trespassing around my pool to begin with. If it was a child, why are the parents not keeping an eye on them? Why did they not teach them to keep out of other people's yards? Why didn't they teach them about being safe around a pool? If it was one of my daughters who died in a pool on someone else's property, I would be devastated but I would not be angry with the homeowner.

The home owner can be held accountable under the doctrine of attractive nuisance. He is expected to reasonably secure such things from young children who might not know better. I'll agree that the parents should be held accountable here as well.

Your analogy is flawed. You introduce rules that you think are synonymous with accountability. Accountability is accepting the consequences of an outcome. It is not the attempt to control those outcomes.

I only used a very well known example of an attractive nuisance. My definition of accountability is the same as yours. In my example, there are consequences for not reasonably securing a pool from a trespassing child. Accountability would be accepting the consequence if a child should drown. Attempting to control the outcome would be performing due diligence to avoid those consequences.

What I am trying to say is that there are expectations and responsibilities on all of us (even if one takes the state out of the equation). If we don't live up to those expectations and responsibilities, we will be held accountable in some way. In my mind, I consider that as a chilling effect on liberty.

 

[mikem1]

He uses humor to get a point across, good job.

 

[88GT]

I only used a very well known example of an attractive nuisance. My definition of accountability is the same as yours. In my example, there are consequences for not reasonably securing a pool from a trespassing child. Accountability would be accepting the consequence if a child should drown. Attempting to control the outcome would be performing due diligence to avoid those consequences.

No, you think accountability is the implementation of rules. You said so yourself. You set it up so that freedom (having the pool) and accountability (required to be secured from children) were contradictory. You created accountability on the part of the homeowner by the existence of rules.

In the absence of those rules, what responsibility does the homeowner have for that child? Is it his child? Is the child there with permission? How can the homeowner be responsible for someone when that person isn't supposed to be there? Your example is nothing less than the thief suing the homeowner because the former was bit by the latter's dog when the former was attempting to burgle the joint. I have no responsibility, and therefore, no accountability, for what happens to people not invited to my property.

What I am trying to say is that there are expectations and responsibilities on all of us (even if one takes the state out of the equation). If we don't live up to those expectations and responsibilities, we will be held accountable in some way. In my mind, I consider that as a chilling effect on liberty.

I think you need to provide an example because I can't see liberty being at risk if the state is kept out of the equation. What powers do my neighbors have to infringe on my liberties? The only risk comes from the state. I didn't invite them in. Did you?

 

[HoughMade]

Heck, I'm going to start storing gun on my porch. It's not my fault if someone steals them. I didn't give them permission to take them.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Heck, I'm going to start storing gun on my porch. It's not my fault if someone steals them. I didn't give them permission to take them.

Hey now, that is a whole lot different then leaving it in your house with the doors closed

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Heck, I'm going to start storing gun on my porch. It's not my fault if someone steals them. I didn't give them permission to take them.

Where do you live?

 

[Bunnykid68]

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I see what you're trying to do....Go find your own guns stored on a porch and stop trying to poach mine!

 

[usermax2000]

couldn,t agree more......................