Letter from Sen. Jim Tomes

[mrortega]

You fear what is beginning to show in Jim, Mr. "Jedi"?

That he's being corrupted in the capital?

That's insulting, sir.

Jim Tomes has done more for the 2A in IN than most anyone here. In fact, he's probably done more and continues to do more than 99% of of gun rights advocates across America.

I know Jim personally and he's one heck of a stand-up guy. You couldn't ask for a more pro-liberty, pro-gun guy.

More importantly, he's intelligent as well.

He's trying to tell some of the reactionary purists to cool their jets and he's telling them why.

Like him, I'm not sure they'll get the message. This open carry party some of these [reactionary purists] are considering will have implications well beyond Evansville, and potentially even beyond Indiana altogether.

I'll give you an example: When involved in the negotiations to get Illinois' carry bill passed this spring, there was some give and take to secure the votes we needed to make a deal happen.

Yes, for those who know and understand, politics is a dirty game of compromises. You can be morally and mentally pure, but you'll leave empty-handed almost everytime with that attitude.

Anyway, one particular legislator who shall remain nameless, wanted to insert a ban on carry in libraries, because, at the time, the bill under consideration was both an open carry as well as a "substantially concealed" bill.

I asked, "Why does XXXXX have such an interest in libraries of all places?"

Todd Vandermyde, the NRA's guy in IL who spearheaded this entire process told me, "Well, some library group is in his district and they are scared to death some open carry advocates are gonna have an open carry demonstration at their member libraries *like they did in Michigan* a while back."

I'm pretty sure it was Michigan, but the point is that being aggressive (or obnoxious from some folks' point of view) in open carry advocacy has its time, place and manner. If done poorly it also has its very negative fallout.

There's nothing wrong with open carry. I do it myself when in IN, especially in summer months, but I'm not a jerk about it and I use common sense.

John Boch
President
Guns Save Life

John, are you the guy from Illinois who was at the 2A meeting a few months ago?

 

[CarmelHP]

Effectiveness? States have banned gay marriage, some have even banned the concept of civil unions and extending similar rights to gays.

Really? List all the places where gay marriage or civil unions were legal 30 years ago. It's a round number. Gun owners keeping their heads low is how the assault weapons ban came to pass. We keep making the same mistakes and calling it wisdom.

 

[Indy317]

Really? List all the places where gay marriage or civil unions were legal 30 years ago. It's a round number. Gun owners keeping their heads low is how the assault weapons ban came to pass. We keep making the same mistakes and calling it wisdom.

2004: A county in Oregon issues same-sex marriage licenses.

Oregon county issues same-sex marriage licenses - CNN

2004 election: Voters in Oregon pass an amendment saying "marriage" can only be between one man and one woman.

2012: Another referendum may appear on the ballot...we shall see what happens.

If all the "in your face" action was so positive for the gay rights movement, why did so many states take action in passing laws against gay marriage? While it may not have been legal 30 years ago, some states had no laws even dealing with it. All of a sudden, it becomes an issue and some states are pass laws or constitutional amendments defining marriage and/or outlawing gay marriage.

Wonder what would happen if we put an open carry law on the ballot in Indiana?

 

[Bunnykid68]

2004: A county in Oregon issues same-sex marriage licenses.

Oregon county issues same-sex marriage licenses - CNN

2004 election: Voters in Oregon pass an amendment saying "marriage" can only be between one man and one woman.

2012: Another referendum may appear on the ballot...we shall see what happens.

If all the "in your face" action was so positive for the gay rights movement, why did so many states take action in passing laws against gay marriage? While it may not have been legal 30 years ago, some states had no laws even dealing with it. All of a sudden, it becomes an issue and some states are pass laws or constitutional amendments defining marriage and/or outlawing gay marriage.

Wonder what would happen if we put an open carry law on the ballot in Indiana?

Open Carry on the ballot in Indiana would probably make OC illegal.

 

[Concerned Citizen]

Wonder what would happen if we put an open carry law on the ballot in Indiana?

Now that's a scary scenario.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Open Carry on the ballot in Indiana would probably make OC illegal.

Now that's a scary scenario.

Because people just don't realize our rights are only one vote away from disappearing.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Those posting in the papers comment section already see what a lot of gun owners think about open carry.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

To be fair, attention whoring on the internet and doing something about your beliefs in the real world are two different things.

My experience has been that most (99%) of people aren't really bothered by someone actually OCing but the THOUGHT of it disturbs them.

 

[KG1]

The last thing we want or need at this point is for open carry to be made illegal. There are to many grey areas and to many possibilities for law abiding citizens to be caught up on charges for simply having their firearm accidently exposed such as in bending over or reaching for something on a shelf or a good breeze blowing and then you also have to deal with the whole "printing" issue. CC only laws are another trap for good honest law abiding citizens and do nothing to thwart the criminal element.

 

[CarmelHP]

If all the "in your face" action was so positive for the gay rights movement, why did so many states take action in passing laws against gay marriage? While it may not have been legal 30 years ago, some states had no laws even dealing with it. All of a sudden, it becomes an issue and some states are pass laws or constitutional amendments defining marriage and/or outlawing gay marriage.

Wonder what would happen if we put an open carry law on the ballot in Indiana?

So, something that was not legal ANYWHERE, and now is legal many places where it was not legal before, is a loss? Now, I see how some of can think it logical that the best way to protect open carry is to never practice it.

"Don't none of you negroes need to be eating at the Woolworth's lunch counter, you must be responsible so you don't cause those policeman's nightsticks to break your skulls. Go be good boys."

 

[Titanium_Frost]

The last thing we want or need at this point is for open carry to be made illegal. There are to many grey areas and to many possibilities for law abiding citizens to be caught up on charges for simply having their firearm accidently exposed such as in bending over or reaching for something on a shelf or a good breeze blowing and then you also have to deal with the whole "printing" issue. CC only laws are another trap for good honest law abiding citizens and do nothing to thwart the criminal element.

And that is without a doubt, the single greatest reason why those who don't really like OC should still support it as our right protected by US and Indiana constitutions.

 

[KG1]

And that is without a doubt, the single greatest reason why those who don't really like OC should still support it as our right protected by US and Indiana constitutions.

AGREED. I just get tired of to many laws on the books or ones being proposed that have the potential to make criminals out of people that only want to live their lives on the up and up and do the right thing while exercising their Constitutional rights.

 

[Britton]

Jim's got a good point and I do agree with him. IMHO, open carry is not tactically sound, so therefore I do it rarely for that reason. But, in the end I do support those that choose to open carry and would never support a change in the law or a new law regulating open carry.

 

[Bunnykid68]

If open carry were not tactically sound the LEO and military would conceal their weapons.

 

[ATM]

must....... not..... threadjack..............

 

[Titanium_Frost]

must....... not..... threadjack..............

LMAO you know you want to...

 

[CarmelHP]

I don't open carry, never have. I support others who do as it is perfectly legal. I condemn LEO's that enforce non-existing laws and refuse to blame the victim.

 

[Mr. Habib]

must....... not..... threadjack..............

Do it. It's for the children.

 

[Hoosierdood]

If open carry were not tactically sound the LEO and military would conceal their weapons.

 

[japartridge]

The last thing we want or need at this point is for open carry to be made illegal. There are to many grey areas and to many possibilities for law abiding citizens to be caught up on charges for simply having their firearm accidently exposed such as in bending over or reaching for something on a shelf or a good breeze blowing and then you also have to deal with the whole "printing" issue. CC only laws are another trap for good honest law abiding citizens and do nothing to thwart the criminal element.

Totally agree! If we had conceal only laws here in IN, I could name about 15 people I know, including myself that would be in a heap of trouble!

I don't always OC, just like I don't always CC, but I fully support anyone who want's to OC, as long as they are responsible carriers, I don't really care what, or how you carry, just as long as you carry!

Rights are rights, we are getting lost in the weeds here.... we should be supporting anyone and everyone who is fighting for our rights. As many others have already stated our rights are just one vote from being "former rights".