Lesbian's brutal gang rape investigated in Calif.

[jsgolfman]

A hate crime is a thought crime. It's nothing but social legislation.

 

[4sarge]

A hate crime is a thought crime. It's nothing but social legislation.

As much as we seem to disagree on many topics you have this one absolutely correct

 

[BloodEclipse]

Actually, I'd like to know what you mean by weak woman also. Didn't I read there were 4 of them? I don't consider myself a weak woman. I have a black belt in karate. I've won International sparring championships and state championships. There were 4 of them and even if I had a gun on me, who knows. I still may have suffered the same fate. I would like to think that I was aware of my surroundings and that I wouldn't have even let any guy get close to me let a lone 4 of them. But you never know...

I don't think you meant weak woman though... maybe you meant someone now aware of her surroundings...

What I was suggesting is, bad guys target people based on what they percieve to be the easiest targets. The way a person carries themselves is body language that is picked up by the bad guys. So yes in my term weak, it could be defined as unaware as well.

 

[Metro 40]

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[schwaky18]

This is total BS. Maybe these guys just wanted to rape a women. But now since she is "(insert whatever P.C. term you want to use)" they now are charged with a hate crime. Ok so they admitted they knew she was "(insert whatever P.C. term you want to use)" and made commits about it. This does not mean this is why they raped her. This is why hate crimes are total B.S. Rape=Rape but if you are “(insert all P.C. terms for a minority)” you have more protection. This is like telling B.G. please rape/rob/murder white stright males because the sentence is less.

Further, if I want to hang a noose or use the N word or use any word this is not “P.C.” that should be covered under my first amendment. This would make me a bigot and an a$$hole but this is my G.D. right. Hate crimes are just a step towards the P.C. world where 1A, 2A, 4A gets swallowed up by the government.

 

[schwaky18]

As a side not if we would just make rape a capital crime then this wouldn't be a problem. Although I see many problems with that also.

 

[96harley]

Schwaky18....
I agree. Just another way for the government to chip another liberty from our granite foundation.

 

[GetA2J]

I say that "sexual orientation" would be a better term. "Sexual preference" implies that it's a choice. I don't believe that it is. There's little doubt in my mind that homosexuality or heterosexuality is genetic.

I usually agree with most of your posts, but this is where I draw the line.
NOBODY will EVER convince me that "sexual preference" is genetic in any way, shape,or form. And I don't care how anybody wants to try to explain it away!!!!

NOBODY was EVER "born gay"!
Nobody will EVER be born gay!
It is totally and only a choice!

 

[techres]

I usually agree with most of your posts, but this is where I draw the line.
NOBODY will EVER convince me that "sexual preference" is genetic in any way, shape,or form. And I don't care how anybody wants to try to explain it away!!!!

NOBODY was EVER "born gay"!
Nobody will EVER be born gay!
It is totally and only a choice!

And from the other side of the argument, frankly, no one will likely ever be able to convince me that people actively choose to be gay. I know I couldn't wake up one day and make that choice. I have always liked my toast buttered on the Hetero side and cannot begin to imagine any other choice.

And that is what is great about America, how people like their toast buttered is really no one else's business!

(Yeah, I fully expect the 1,094 posts about how XYZ is making ABC their business...)

 

[BloodEclipse]

I say that "sexual orientation" would be a better term. "Sexual preference" implies that it's a choice. I don't believe that it is. There's little doubt in my mind that homosexuality or heterosexuality is genetic.

I disagree.
Can all sexual deviation be genetic?
Pedophilia?
Bestiality?
Fetishism?
Transvestitism?
Etc.....

These are sexual choices and desires outside the norm. So instead of making those who exercise these choices stand out, they call it genetic so they don't feel abnormal.
That makes it OK because their choice is not their fault, it is beyond their control and how dare you question it.

 

[GetA2J]

I disagree.
Can all sexual deviation be genetic?
Pedophilia?
Bestiality?
Fetishism?
Transvestitism?
Etc.....

These are sexual choices and desires outside the norm. So instead of making those who exercise these choices stand out, they call it genetic so they don't feel abnormal.
That makes it OK because their choice is not their fault, it is beyond their control and how dare you question it.

Thank you BloodEclipse: That is a very good point!

 

[Metro 40]

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[BloodEclipse]

So it's fathomable that you could choose to look at a man's hairy ass and find love? I know I couldn't. Why? Because I'm genetically programmed to be a heterosexual.

I'm not saying that it's NORMAL. But it's pretty obvious, if you've ever spent any time around a gay person, that they are just different. Gay people report knowing that they are different from an early age, even before they have a clue what sexual orientation is. It's clearly a function of how the mind works, or genetic programming. Babies are born with all sorts of different conditions all of the time (autism, down syndrome, etc.) Some of these conditions are readily apparent at birth, and some only manifest themselves later in life. (mental illness, genetic defects, etc.) I believe that homosexuality is much along these lines. It's not normal, because heterosexuality is what is necessary for the procreation of the species in the natural sense, but it's not something that should be cause for hatred or discrimination.

Based on that thought process how do you square that with Bi-sexuals?

 

[ATF Consumer]

Based on that thought process how do you square that with Bi-sexuals?

they must only be half way defective

 

[SavageEagle]

I hope her the best, as being raped is awful and would wish it on no one except those who do such.

Rape is a horrible crime. But the reason of her being a "lesbian" is either an excuse or a motive and nothing else. Period. Hate crimes are provided to those who wish be considered a victim their whole life because of their "condition" and nothing more. The world owes them something and thats one way to get what they want.

As for sexuality preferance, it is purely choice. You mean to tell me that even though their great grandparents, grandparents, and parents, even though they were straight, passed on the "gay gene"? Sorry, that's a crock of sheet and even though I can't prove you wrong with science, nor can you prove yourself right. You are only given 24 genes that make up your genetic structure, and I refuse to believe that one of those is the "gay gene". And you can't tell me that XYZ disease is a "fluke" or "mutation" in the gene structure. Such as Cancer. You either develop it by the choice you make in your life such as smoking or drinking or the air you breathe in the place you choose to live, or it is handed down through genetics. So if you have no one in your family tree, even that was gay, then where did this "gay gene" come from? It never existed. That is my belief on the subject until they prove me otherwise.

I don't even know why I put this response as it is "moot" and not a part of the subject. The fact that she was raped is horrible. Punishment should be life or death in prision, no chance for parole. Or just hang the bastards. Bet people would think twice before they even thought about it!

 

[Metro 40]

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[Chefcook]

So it's fathomable that you could choose to look at a man's hairy ass and find love? I know I couldn't. Why? Because I'm genetically programmed to be a heterosexual.

I'm not saying that it's NORMAL. But it's pretty obvious, if you've ever spent any time around a gay person, that they are just different. Gay people report knowing that they are different from an early age, even before they have a clue what sexual orientation is. It's clearly a function of how the mind works, or genetic programming. Babies are born with all sorts of different conditions all of the time (autism, down syndrome, etc.) Some of these conditions are readily apparent at birth, and some only manifest themselves later in life. (mental illness, genetic defects, etc.) I believe that homosexuality is much along these lines. It's not normal, because heterosexuality is what is necessary for the procreation of the species in the natural sense, but it's not something that should be cause for hatred or discrimination.

+1 Metro 40... Fact of the matter is narrow minded people tend to react by throwing stones when they themselves do not understand something. Its just a reaction based in fear, like a little kid being afraid of the dark. As your true quote of Sam Kinison "how can you look at another mans hairy ass and find love" Hell I don't know either. But its not my place to force my views on another person. That is truly the only freedom any of us has. Is the freedom of choice...JC

 

[ATF Consumer]

Metro 40, did I miss your answer or did you avoid the question...
Originally Posted by BloodEclipse
Based on that thought process how do you square that with Bi-sexuals?

 

[Metro 40]

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[BloodEclipse]

If only every possible deviation of human behavior could be "squared" into a neat little box, prepackaged for easy selection as a target of hatred, depending on what one's deity told them to hate. Ah, what an uncomplicated world it would be!

Being Agnostic I'm not told by others that I have to believe that a certain behaviour is sinful and therefore I should oppose it

People are usually born right-handed. A small, but significant percentage are born left-handed. An even smaller minority is ambidextrous. That proves to me that there are genetic predispositions to behavior. Not everything is determined at birth....I believe that some behaviors are developed in early childhood (the formative years). But it is clear that some of the most BASIC behaviors are predetermined. And if there is anything that is basic in humans it is the sex drive.

Proof is a hard thing to come by.

As far as your other post mentioning pedophilia, bestiality, etc.....those are all certainly deviations from the norm. They have nothing to do with basic sexual orientation, however. They are deviant sexual behaviors, period, regardless of what the orientation is.
I'm not sure I'm following you here? Are you suggesting that the only sexual orientation is either Hetero or Homosexual? I would counter to say that it is about morals, living outside of the established norm is what drives some people in thier sex drive. That is what causes these perversions. Some people will have sex with anybody or anything. Is that not their orientation?
Behavior that is damaging to others should be against the law, and should be punished. (ie: pedophilia) Regardless of the strength of the primal sexual urge in humans, whether genetic or developed through experience or trauma, adults are responsible for their choices and should be punished for acts that harm others. It's interesting to note that there are both heterosexual and homosexual child molesters. Should one be punished more harshly than the other, or should they both be punished equally for harming the child?

Punished the same, as we are talking here about rape

Homosexuality is a behavior that, while not normal, is between two consenting adults and, while it may offend your sensibilities, it does not directly harm you. I'm not saying I want it to end. I'm suggesting that it is a choice and as long as special protections are not developed for that choice, I could care less what two, three, four or five consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes. There is deviancy in both heterosexuals and homosexuals, and I don't think that either should be celebrated in society. But I believe that basic sexual orientation is ingrained, and to deny a person basic human rights because of sexual orientation is wrong.

I don't think I've suggested denying anyone any rights. They just don't qualify for special rights.

By the way, to get back on track.....I don't agree with hate crime legislation. A crime is a crime, period. A raped woman is a victim, no matter what the perpetrator was "thinking" at the time. Punishing people for their thoughts is a dangerous road to go down....