Leaks provide ground-level account of Afghan war

[irishfan]

Ruthless and vidictive no doubt. Using technology does not make one intelligent.

Underestimating your enemy can be the first and last mistake you make. These people are fanatics and their handlers are brilliant.

That is very true. The smart ones are the leaders who plan the attacks and let the poor and impressionable youth and misguided sacrifice theirself.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Ruthless and vidictive no doubt. Using technology does not make one intelligent.

Underestimating your enemy can be the first and last mistake you make. These people are fanatics and their handlers are brilliant.

I don't think brilliant is the right word. Charismatic, would be better.

Even then, how much charisma does it take to get a young boy who wants to die for allah to go die for allah?

If they were Brilliant, they would have figured out how to force us out of their country.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Ruthless and vidictive no doubt. Using technology does not make one intelligent.

(snipped.

Using technology _intelligently_ is an indicator of intelligence. Many of the leaders of these Islamic jihadist groups are relatively well educated and are using technology in effective ways to communicate, plan, and propagandize. There are plenty of foreign born students being educated here and elsewhere who have the capability and the willingness to use technology to further the aims of the Jihad. Thinking of them as crude and cunning cavemen who have figured out how to turn on a light switch (hyperbole alert!) is a sure recipe for disaster.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I can post on the internet and use a cell phone too. I've repeatedly used both to organize events, inlcuding the use of Evite. Does that make me a Taliban mastermind?? If so, how much does said job pay and what are the benefits? This engineering gig is getting stale.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I can post on the internet and use a cell phone too. I've repeatedly used both to organize events, inlcuding the use of Evite. Does that make me a Taliban mastermind?? If so, how much does said job pay and what are the benefits? This engineering gig is getting stale.

So are you saying you aren't smart? Or are you saying that, because you are smart, they are dumb?

The top AQ leadership is plenty smart. The evidence? They're still alive.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I'm saying that they're not doing anything a 16 y/o with an iphone couldn't already do, so applying the label "brilliant" to them might be over the top.

Whiling your days away in a cave hidden in the Hindu-Kush preaching Jihad to a bunch of goat humpers sounds like a fate worse than death to me. They'd do themselves a favor if they just popped smoke and put a sign outside that said "Bin Laden Lives Here"

 

[E5RANGER375]

Our enemy wipes his ass with his hand after ****ting in the street. I believe you over-estimate his counter-intelligence network.

yeah, i knew people who thought like you on this. they are now dead.

dont underestimate them. thats what the russians did, and they got their asses kicked.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I'm saying that they're not doing anything a 16 y/o with an iphone couldn't already do, so applying the label "brilliant" to them might be over the top.

Whiling your days away in a cave hidden in the Hindu-Kush preaching Jihad to a bunch of goat humpers sounds like a fate worse than death to me. They'd do themselves a favor if they just popped smoke and put a sign outside that said "Bin Laden Lives Here"

Not to put the words in his mouth, but I think the other OP was making the same allusion that I did, e.g. the leadership is still alive and functioning.

If all they were doing was preaching to the goat humpers, it wouldn't be a problem, but they're connected, at some level, to the internet and they're doing their preaching and recruiting via websites.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Russia got their asses kicked because we supplied the street ****ters with missles and other goodies.

Looking back, that may not have been the best idea.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Ruthless and vidictive no doubt. Using technology does not make one intelligent.

I don't think brilliant is the right word. Charismatic, would be better.

Even then, how much charisma does it take to get a young boy who wants to die for allah to go die for allah?

If they were Brilliant, they would have figured out how to force us out of their country.

um, they already have figured out how. they know all they have to do is keep killing Americans and drag this war out and the American people forget quickly and wont want the military to stay. look at vietnam. they knew they couldnt go head to head, all they had to do was play the political time game.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Russia got their asses kicked because we supplied the street ****ters with missles and other goodies.

Looking back, that may not have been the best idea.

part of it. they had the will to fight for a cause and die for that cause they believed in. you will never win against a man who is willing to be a martyr. he has nothing to lose if he is already willing to die.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Just to be clear.

I don't underestimate their ability to fight a guerilla war. They've proven they can do that.

Which is why we need to quite *****-footing around over there and either "fix the problem" or come home.

No more of this hearts and minds, and restrictive ROA, and other BS.

 

[ATOMonkey]

um, they already have figured out how. they know all they have to do is keep killing Americans and drag this war out and the American people forget quickly and wont want the military to stay. look at vietnam. they knew they couldnt go head to head, all they had to do was play the political time game.

That's not forcing us out, that's just making us tired of not winning.

And we would be winning if someone would grow a pair and institute a winning strategy.

The CIA and SF took the North in 3 months. Why we decided to deviate from that is beyond me. I guess the 10th Mountain was just bored and needed something to do.

 

[E5RANGER375]

That's not forcing us out, that's just making us tired of not winning.

And we would be winning if someone would grow a pair and institute a winning strategy.

The CIA and SF took the North in 3 months. Why we decided to deviate from that is beyond me. I guess the 10th Mountain was just bored and needed something to do.

does it matter the means one achieves their victory? If i fight you I will bite your nuts off if thats the wuickest or guarenteed way to defeat you. does that make me any less of a winner? you sound like the british after we railed them with "un-civilized tactics" in the Revolutionary war.

also your leaving out afew good folks in your play by play. it was'nt just the CIA and SF

and i will tell you the EXACT reason we deviated from the initial strategy that was working. well 2 reasons.

1. bush didnt want the war to be over so soon with the capture of bin laden. orders came DIRECTLY from the white house that stopped the capture of bin laden.

2. our "allies" werent realy allies. they were playing both sides. just like they still do.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

That's not forcing us out, that's just making us tired of not winning.

And we would be winning if someone would grow a pair and institute a winning strategy.

The CIA and SF took the North in 3 months. Why we decided to deviate from that is beyond me. I guess the 10th Mountain was just bored and needed something to do.

The CIA and SF paid for and led opposition forces that were already in place and used them to drive the Taliban out. That's not the same thing as occupying the country and the Afghans look at our attempts to democratize them the same way they looked at the Russians trying to Communize them. As long as most of the jihadists were traveling to Iraq to fight (and die against) the Crusaders, there weren't many resources available for the Taliban to stage a resurgence in Afghanistan. Once the Iraqis decided the foreign jihadists, who were perfectly happy to kill them as well as Americans, were worse than the invaders and turned against them, the paymasters of jihad decided that war was lost, at least temporarily, and began to commit funding to the Taliban.

In Afghanistan, anyone can stir up trouble against "furriners", especially occupying furriners, so it wasn't hard to stir up trouble again in the country.

Having said all that, I just read today that some of the WikiLeaks documents indicate that the restrictive ROE and the "hearts and minds" strategy has had some effect. Of course, as in Vietnam, it will not be allowed to carry through to completion.

 

[JiNx0036]

Bradley Manning, Wikileaks Source? Pentagon Investigating 'Person Of Interest'

Arrest of Bradley Manning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is the informant if anyone hasn't seen it yet.

 

[gunowner930]

That's not forcing us out, that's just making us tired of not winning.

And we would be winning if someone would grow a pair and institute a winning strategy.

The CIA and SF took the North in 3 months. Why we decided to deviate from that is beyond me. I guess the 10th Mountain was just bored and needed something to do.

I'm not trying to insult you so please don't take it that way. But i think you're ignorant when assessing the capabilities of our enemies in Afghanistan. They're not stupid. A stupid insurgent has a very short life expectency. I have not been to Afghanistan so I can't speak from experience there but I have been to Iraq. In Iraq they were able to build IEDs that were detonated through a cell phone. They were able to destroy M1 Abrams tanks with well hidden IEDs that consisted of 5 or more 155 mm HE rnds. You wouldn't believe the ingenuity that went into some of those IEDs. You mentioned their counter-intelligence earlier. They were using the internet to spy on soldiers' and marines' myspace because the morons would post things they shouldn't and they would gather intel like that. Just because they don't have fighter jets or tanks does not mean they're not effective.

Also, Iraq is a very different country than Afghanistan. Afghanistan is one of the most underdeveloped countries on earth with makes communication and transportation very difficult. I use the term "country" very loosely. The central government has no authority beyond Kabul and never really has.

 

[SavageEagle]

Bradley Manning, Wikileaks Source? Pentagon Investigating 'Person Of Interest'

Arrest of Bradley Manning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is the informant if anyone hasn't seen it yet.

I call .

Classic case of "Fall Guy". Oh looky, he's done it before! Even if he DIDN'T do it, we can blame him and take the heat off us for a little bit while we find the REAL leaker....

I dunno. Maybe he did do it, but I still call BS on him.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I call .

Classic case of "Fall Guy". Oh looky, he's done it before! Even if he DIDN'T do it, we can blame him and take the heat off us for a little bit while we find the REAL leaker....

I dunno. Maybe he did do it, but I still call BS on him.

The hacker who pointed the military to Manning says Manning doesn't have the skills to have accessed those files; he thinks there are others involved.

 

[360]

The reporters are going to have a field day covering a war right here on our own soil.

It's coming.

Not sure who against who, but those insecure borders will play a huge part in how they got here.