KODIAK BEAR charged from 12 feet and taken with an M&P10MM.

[Brad69]

Underwood ammo for the win !

 

[Remington 90T]

just inherited a Baby Browning 25 cal. from my grandmom -Saved her life from a charging griz when she was hiking in Alaska, She got between a griz and its cubs, As the bear charged, she turned and fired hitting granddad in the leg. She walked away after just one shot.

 

[edporch]

And now for the rest of the story.

I KNEW there had to be more to this story, and that it was unlikely he killed this bear with JUST a 10mm pistol.

Here's the order of firing from the story.
Link to the story is below.

(quote from story)
"To recap the ordering of fire, it is as follows:

• Tyce hits the bear with a rifle to begin the tracking process.
• Guide fires two shots from his rifle as the bear charges them.
• Tyce fires three shots at the bear with his 10mm.
• One final shot from a rifle as it's down for the count to put an end to it."
  
  

  Hunter Who Shot Charging Bear With Pistol Shares Epic Details

  Tyce Erickson speaks with David Hookstead about shooting a charging Kodiak bear with a pistol.

  www.outkick.com

 

[Methane Herder]

The only "Big Bear" pistol I would be comfortable with, assuming I had five of them locked and loaded with me.

Magnum Research Lone Eagle, .444 Marlin.

MH

 

[Amishman44]

Bear probably thought so too and knew he wouldn’t have a chance…probably took the gun and shot himself.

If the bear thought the guy looked like Chuck Norris...this is probably the most feasible response!

 

[cosermann]

There's an article back from 2018 that suggests handguns have been surprisingly effective in stopping bear attacks over the years. 162 documented cases.

Article ==> https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5UFScHWeC
Update ==> https://www.ammoland.com/2024/05/be...ate-20-more-cases-98-effective/#axzz8fV33R1a3

Coincidentally, Lucky Gunner just put out a blog post and video on this article update this week. Good summary:

Handguns for Bear Defense: Lessons from Real-World Attacks

Exploring the best handguns for bear defense, effectiveness of warning shots, performance of various calibers, and other real-world stats

www.luckygunner.com

 

[MindfulMan]

If the bear thought the guy looked like Chuck Norris...this is probably the most feasible response!

 

[teddy12b]

I've been to Alaska 3 times in the last six years. The most recent was a month and a half ago. Every time I go I talk with guys at the local gun stores who are some times licensed hunting guides about the guns and gear people use there. By far the overwhelming consensus is that people have been and continue to move to 10mm handguns getting away from the larger heavy wheel guns.

Personally, when I bought my 10mm handgun it's because it's the most powerful handgun that I can shoot as fast and as accurately as I feel safe with. I get the bigger is better discussion, but a 15+1 10mm handgun is 16 opportunities for a worse case scenario to end versus 5 or 6 rounds in a wheel gun. I wouldn't go looking for a bear fight with just a 10mm, but I wouldn't feel under gunned at all with a 10mm loaded with the full power nasty stuff.

I should have mentioned this earlier about my S&W 10mm, but I did end up changing out the recoil to the heavier option because will full power loads it was a little light from the factory.

 

[Creedmoor]

I've been to Alaska 3 times in the last six years. The most recent was a month and a half ago. Every time I go I talk with guys at the local gun stores who are some times licensed hunting guides about the guns and gear people use there. By far the overwhelming consensus is that people have been and continue to move to 10mm handguns getting away from the larger heavy wheel guns.

Personally, when I bought my 10mm handgun it's because it's the most powerful handgun that I can shoot as fast and as accurately as I feel safe with. I get the bigger is better discussion, but a 15+1 10mm handgun is 16 opportunities for a worse case scenario to end versus 5 or 6 rounds in a wheel gun. I wouldn't go looking for a bear fight with just a 10mm, but I wouldn't feel under gunned at all with a 10mm loaded with the full power nasty stuff.

I should have mentioned this earlier about my S&W 10mm, but I did end up changing out the recoil to the heavier option because will full power loads it was a little light from the factory.

I'd be carrying a 10mm also, loaded with Nosler 135 grainers. Comming at you like a high speed Japanese train.

 

[MrSmitty]

I have noticed on the Alaska shows I watch that the people who used to carry wheel guns, now carry Grocks, and I would think that they are 10mm. I had customers come into work looking at 10mm's when they are going hunting out west, or anywhere there might be bears.

 

[92FSTech]

Personally, when I bought my 10mm handgun it's because it's the most powerful handgun that I can shoot as fast and as accurately as I feel safe with. I get the bigger is better discussion, but a 15+1 10mm handgun is 16 opportunities for a worse case scenario to end versus 5 or 6 rounds in a wheel gun. I wouldn't go looking for a bear fight with just a 10mm,

I've been going back and forth about this for a while now.

We've been to AK twice in the past two years, and regularly go to bear country out west in the lower 48 (we're actually headed out to western WY again in two weeks, and will be camping and hiking the entire time that we're there). Despite spending a good amount of time in areas where they live, I have yet to have any close encounters with bears. I have had a few with Moose, but nothing that required using a gun.

My current "bear gun" is an S&W 329PD. It's brutal to shoot, and while I'm decently accurate with it I would never argue that I'm as fast as I would be with a semi-auto. It's absolutely awesome to carry, though...you almost forget it's there. A pretty compelling feature for something you're going to be packing around for miles up and down mountains with a low probability of actually using it.

I've been looking for a suitable 10mm just to have the option, but haven't found what I want yet. The following are the factors that I keep playing around in my head:

1. I like a DA (ideally DA/SA) trigger, especially in the woods, just for the added safety. This limits my options pretty significantly, though. I'm probably going to have to give up on this desire at some point.

2. I have yet to find a 10mm semi auto that's as light and comfortable to carry as my 329.

3. Capacity isn't a huge deal to me. From what I've seen, even with a semi, most folks aren't getting more than 3-4 rounds off on a charging bear. I'd probably be lucky to get 2 with my .44. After that it's on you, and the question becomes how long can you keep shooting while it's actively eating you?

4. Penetration is probably a bit overrated. Yes, you have to have some serious thump to get to vitals of a bear inside the torso, but how many of those shots are likely to incapacitate a bear fast enough to do you any good? Maybe a heart shot? That's a pretty small target deep inside a lot of body mass. And pistol bullets (even heavy magnum rounds) aren't going to cause the necessary hydrostatic shock to disrupt tissue beyond their immediate path of travel, so you've gotta hit it perfect.

5. A brain shot is a reliable means of getting an immediate physiological stop with a handgun, but that means hitting a very small moving target under pressure. It's not going to need the penetrative potential to punch through feet of soft tissue, but you are going to want a heavy bullet with a sharp, flat meplat to punch through a thick skull and minimize the chances of it bouncing off or deflecting around the exterior like has been know to happen with ball rounds.

6. Semi-autos tend to have a tough time feeding those heavier, flat-faced rounds. Some will do it just fine, but a lot of reviews I'm seeing show otherwise reliable guns choke when they feed them the ammo best suited to bear defense.

7. If you're going for headshots, is a magnum revolver cartridge, or even a 10mm, really necessary, or even ideal? I've been playing with some Underwood 255gr .45ACP +P hard cast out of my P220 compact, and the results are pretty impressive. If all I have to do is get through the skull, .40 or 9mm with the right bullet would probably get the job done.

8. Studies have shown that many times simply shooting the bear with pretty much anything will get it to go away. I'm not a big fan of depending upon an unpredictable "psychological" stop, but since the goal is simply not to get eaten or mauled, convincing the bear to go away is just as much of a win in this scenario as making it dead.

Ultimately, I am clearly no expert and don't have all (or any) of the answers. Just sharing some of the mental gymnastics I've gone through on this topic while trying to build an honest argument I can sell to my wife to justify buying another gun, lol.

 

[NyleRN]

I've been going back and forth about this for a while now.

We've been to AK twice in the past two years, and regularly go to bear country out west in the lower 48 (we're actually headed out to western WY again in two weeks, and will be camping and hiking the entire time that we're there). Despite spending a good amount of time in areas where they live, I have yet to have any close encounters with bears. I have had a few with Moose, but nothing that required using a gun.

My current "bear gun" is an S&W 329PD. It's brutal to shoot, and while I'm decently accurate with it I would never argue that I'm as fast as I would be with a semi-auto. It's absolutely awesome to carry, though...you almost forget it's there. A pretty compelling feature for something you're going to be packing around for miles up and down mountains with a low probability of actually using it.

I've been looking for a suitable 10mm just to have the option, but haven't found what I want yet. The following are the factors that I keep playing around in my head:

1. I like a DA (ideally DA/SA) trigger, especially in the woods, just for the added safety. This limits my options pretty significantly, though. I'm probably going to have to give up on this desire at some point.

2. I have yet to find a 10mm semi auto that's as light and comfortable to carry as my 329.

3. Capacity isn't a huge deal to me. From what I've seen, even with a semi, most folks aren't getting more than 3-4 rounds off on a charging bear. I'd probably be lucky to get 2 with my .44. After that it's on you, and the question becomes how long can you keep shooting while it's actively eating you?

4. Penetration is probably a bit overrated. Yes, you have to have some serious thump to get to vitals of a bear inside the torso, but how many of those shots are likely to incapacitate a bear fast enough to do you any good? Maybe a heart shot? That's a pretty small target deep inside a lot of body mass. And pistol bullets (even heavy magnum rounds) aren't going to cause the necessary hydrostatic shock to disrupt tissue beyond their immediate path of travel, so you've gotta hit it perfect.

5. A brain shot is a reliable means of getting an immediate physiological stop with a handgun, but that means hitting a very small moving target under pressure. It's not going to need the penetrative potential to punch through feet of soft tissue, but you are going to want a heavy bullet with a sharp, flat meplat to punch through a thick skull and minimize the chances of it bouncing off or deflecting around the exterior like has been know to happen with ball rounds.

6. Semi-autos tend to have a tough time feeding those heavier, flat-faced rounds. Some will do it just fine, but a lot of reviews I'm seeing show otherwise reliable guns choke when they feed them the ammo best suited to bear defense.

7. If you're going for headshots, is a magnum revolver cartridge, or even a 10mm, really necessary, or even ideal? I've been playing with some Underwood 255gr .45ACP +P hard cast out of my P220 compact, and the results are pretty impressive. If all I have to do is get through the skull, .40 or 9mm with the right bullet would probably get the job done.

8. Studies have shown that many times simply shooting the bear with pretty much anything will get it to go away. I'm not a big fan of depending upon an unpredictable "psychological" stop, but since the goal is simply not to get eaten or mauled, convincing the bear to go away is just as much of a win in this scenario as making it dead.

Ultimately, I am clearly no expert and don't have all (or any) of the answers. Just sharing some of the mental gymnastics I've gone through on this topic while trying to build an honest argument I can sell to my wife to justify buying another gun, lol.

I guess it comes down to what compromises are you willing to make in order to maintain advantage, or best possible outcome

 

[teddy12b]

I've been going back and forth about this for a while now.

We've been to AK twice in the past two years, and regularly go to bear country out west in the lower 48 (we're actually headed out to western WY again in two weeks, and will be camping and hiking the entire time that we're there). Despite spending a good amount of time in areas where they live, I have yet to have any close encounters with bears. I have had a few with Moose, but nothing that required using a gun.

My current "bear gun" is an S&W 329PD. It's brutal to shoot, and while I'm decently accurate with it I would never argue that I'm as fast as I would be with a semi-auto. It's absolutely awesome to carry, though...you almost forget it's there. A pretty compelling feature for something you're going to be packing around for miles up and down mountains with a low probability of actually using it.

I've been looking for a suitable 10mm just to have the option, but haven't found what I want yet. The following are the factors that I keep playing around in my head:

1. I like a DA (ideally DA/SA) trigger, especially in the woods, just for the added safety. This limits my options pretty significantly, though. I'm probably going to have to give up on this desire at some point.

2. I have yet to find a 10mm semi auto that's as light and comfortable to carry as my 329.

3. Capacity isn't a huge deal to me. From what I've seen, even with a semi, most folks aren't getting more than 3-4 rounds off on a charging bear. I'd probably be lucky to get 2 with my .44. After that it's on you, and the question becomes how long can you keep shooting while it's actively eating you?

4. Penetration is probably a bit overrated. Yes, you have to have some serious thump to get to vitals of a bear inside the torso, but how many of those shots are likely to incapacitate a bear fast enough to do you any good? Maybe a heart shot? That's a pretty small target deep inside a lot of body mass. And pistol bullets (even heavy magnum rounds) aren't going to cause the necessary hydrostatic shock to disrupt tissue beyond their immediate path of travel, so you've gotta hit it perfect.

5. A brain shot is a reliable means of getting an immediate physiological stop with a handgun, but that means hitting a very small moving target under pressure. It's not going to need the penetrative potential to punch through feet of soft tissue, but you are going to want a heavy bullet with a sharp, flat meplat to punch through a thick skull and minimize the chances of it bouncing off or deflecting around the exterior like has been know to happen with ball rounds.

6. Semi-autos tend to have a tough time feeding those heavier, flat-faced rounds. Some will do it just fine, but a lot of reviews I'm seeing show otherwise reliable guns choke when they feed them the ammo best suited to bear defense.

7. If you're going for headshots, is a magnum revolver cartridge, or even a 10mm, really necessary, or even ideal? I've been playing with some Underwood 255gr .45ACP +P hard cast out of my P220 compact, and the results are pretty impressive. If all I have to do is get through the skull, .40 or 9mm with the right bullet would probably get the job done.

8. Studies have shown that many times simply shooting the bear with pretty much anything will get it to go away. I'm not a big fan of depending upon an unpredictable "psychological" stop, but since the goal is simply not to get eaten or mauled, convincing the bear to go away is just as much of a win in this scenario as making it dead.

Ultimately, I am clearly no expert and don't have all (or any) of the answers. Just sharing some of the mental gymnastics I've gone through on this topic while trying to build an honest argument I can sell to my wife to justify buying another gun, lol.

Whatever style trigger you prefer is out there. I think Sig makes a DA/SA. Comfort is personal, but in this case we're not really talk about deep concealment and more of an open and easily accessible carry so the comfortable options in holsters open up greatly. Some of 10mm options have feeding hiccups with some of the heaviest of hard cast rounds, but there's also plenty of all copper rounds that would perform similarly like lehigh, barnes etc. The extra capacity in my mind isn't because you're likely to fire more than a 5 or 6 shot cylinder worth of ammo, is so that if you do fire 3 or 4 shots you've got more than 2 or 3 rounds left. Extra ammo brings a lot of comfort in my mind because we're not talking about perfect shots on ideal conditions. We're talking about panic shots on the first thing those sights cross as close to the center as possible as fast as possible. At the end of day, carry whatever you want in bear country because we're all gambling our own lives. I've done it several times with just bear spray and a guy who could outrun me.

 

[teddy12b]

Just a couple of fun thoughts on this. Whatever ammo you would chose could swing the total loaded weights of these guns wildly, but generally these are all in the same ballpark. I didn't expect to see the S&W 329PD to come in as light as it did, but that's a nice option.

Glock 20 Gen 5 10mm: 29.8 ounces with an unloaded mag.

S&S M&P with thumb safety as used in the article: 29.3 ounces with empty mag.

S&W 329PD 44mag: 26.3 ounces with an empty cylinder.

 

[92FSTech]

I think Sig makes a DA/SA.

They do, and while I love the P220 and think it's awesome, the 10mm variant is huge, heavy at 44oz (steel frame), and costs close to $1500. I'd love to own one, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a backpacking gun.

In the category of weight, it's going to be next to impossible to beat a 329PD with a semi-auto. Like you said, some of that is just the weight of the ammo. Higher capacity = more bullets = more weight. It all ends up being a compromise one way or another.

 

[TheJoker]

just inherited a Baby Browning 25 cal. from my grandmom -Saved her life from a charging griz when she was hiking in Alaska, She got between a griz and its cubs, As the bear charged, she turned and fired hitting granddad in the leg. She walked away after just one shot.

Not the first time...

I sometimes pocket carry a Colt 1908 Vest Pocket when I'm in bear country ... Shelbyville Golden Bear Country that is!!!

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Not the first time...

I sometimes pocket carry a Colt 1908 Vest Pocket when I'm in bear country ... Shelbyville Golden Bear Country that is!!!

Thread jack ... love the Freedom Girl coin! Been collecting them since they were first minted in 2013.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Bear vs. Pistol debate.

 

[HCALREF]

I have been to northern Ontario on black bear hunts 6 times back in 70s and 80s. I personally shot and killed 4 black bear with high power rifle. My brother went once and killed one and my brother-in law went with me twice and killed one each time. Total of 7 bears, all were killed with one shot from high powered rifles, 30.06, 270, 444 marlin, 375 HH. However, none died instantly. Took from 4 or 5 minutes to 15 or 20 minutes. Sometimes I (hunting alone) or we had to find the bear in heavy brush. I had friends that wanted to go with me and use a bow and arrow. I said bad idea. Brush is very thick and 9 out of ten times arrow would be deflected. Personal experience, I would not use any handgun.