Just a thought on DHS' million round orders.

[Archer46176]

I haven't seen anything here addressing this but if it is a duplicate post I appologize.

Awhile back there were orders placed by DHS for millions of round of 5.56, .40 and .308, there may have been some .45, 9mm and 12 gauge too but I don't recall that right now.

Does anyone else find it odd that DHS placed these orders for so much ammunition nkt terribly long before the buying panick started? Almost like they knew something was about to happen that would cause a shortage. Now we have LE agencies who are saying the ammo and magazine run has caused them to run short as well. Why wouldn't DHS turn over some of the millions of rounds since they work with LE?

I don't tend to be a conspiracy guy but there seems to be more to them ordering so much at such a crucial time. Especially since some of it was supposedly for one of the weather services.
I am wondering if there is any info out there on if they had bought up a bunch of spare magazines or accessories as well...

 

[Bigtanker]

If you take into account how many people that will be using the ammo ordered, which includes border patrol and a few other agencies, it is not a lot per person. You have to take in to account training, testing and the like. Maybe 1500-2000 rounds per?

Just a thought.

 

[Rocket]

If you take into account how many people that will be using the ammo ordered, which includes border patrol and a few other agencies, it is not a lot per person. You have to take in to account training, testing and the like. Maybe 1500-2000 rounds per?

Just a thought.

Just donned my tin foil hat. Why was all of it JHP a much more expensive way to practice, why not just TMJ?

 

[Disposable Heart]

Just donned my tin foil hat. Why was all of it JHP a much more expensive way to practice, why not just TMJ?

Because when it's not your money, but yours to do with as you please... you get, well, liberal with it's expenditure....

Bear in mind, many training programs I've seen for police have situations where if a live round hits the deck (say, dropped while loading a mag or ejecting after running a drill), it's considered dead and to be swept up with the brass...

 

[grahamsy2k]

If you take into account how many people that will be using the ammo ordered, which includes border patrol and a few other agencies, it is not a lot per person. You have to take in to account training, testing and the like. Maybe 1500-2000 rounds per?

Just a thought.

Actually I heard most of the rounds were HP. So no target practice there.

 

[jbell_64]

When feds shoot their (typically) twice per year qualifiers, they have to use HP duty ammo. That will account for a considerable amount of HP ammo.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Just donned my tin foil hat. Why was all of it JHP a much more expensive way to practice, why not just TMJ?

Well, shortly after I got out of the Coast Guard, they switched to .40's and started using HP ammunition. You fight the way you train, meaning you don't qualify with FMJ then carry JHP. Just the Coast Guard alone goes through hundreds of thousands of rounds a year. That's just one entity of the DOHS. We qualified every three months at my unit.

 

[HavokCycle]

ive often found JHP to be cheaper than FMJ in some cases.
the last time i stocked up on .40 it was like, 16 for FMJ, and 12 for Ranger JHP.

 

[David]

DHS bought over one and a half BILLION rounds of ammunition in 2012 alone. That's more bullets than were fired in the entire Iraq war. DHS has been around for a while, why have they not needed this much training ammo in the past? They are buying it just to get it off the market so that #1, you cant have it,and #2, the increased demand drives the price up so that you can't even afford to buy what they dont get.

Or they plan on using it. They don't fight foreign wars as far as I know.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

DHS bought over one and a half BILLION rounds of ammunition in 2012 alone. That's more bullets than were fired in the entire Iraq war. DHS has been around for a while, why have they not needed this much training ammo in the past? They are buying it just to get it off the market so that #1, you cant have it,and #2, the increased demand drives the price up so that you can't even afford to buy what they dont get.

Or they plan on using it. They don't fight foreign wars as far as I know.

Take your tinfoil hate off and get some fresh air. My unit alone fired 5,000 plus rounds of handgun ammunition a year. That's one unit of just the Coast Guard alone. Then you figure in Border Patrol, Customs, ATF, DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. You should really do your homework before screaming conspiracy.

 

[Excalibur]

That's why you should never look at just numbers. Numbers, especially really BIG numbers can alarm people if they look at them out of context.

 

[jath08]

DHS just awarded a contract for 200,000 .40 cal 180grn JHP on January 2 2013. To go to there training center. Im taking it this was seperate from the 1.6 billion rounds. So there still buying ammo. Interesting stuff there soliciting contracts for.

Also the way I read it each sub-departmentof the DHS like the Coast Guard and Boarder Patrol solicites/orders there own stuff i.e ammo. Not only were there the "BIG" orders like the .223 duty ammo there was also training ammo purchased or a contract put out for it. Most of its going to the Federal Training Center or Customs and Immigrations/Border Patrol.

Personally I'm on the fence about this and I have yet to purchase a tinfoil hat but that much ammo being ordered in that short a period regadless if its for training or qualifications or whatever department of DHS it goes to, does raise an eyebrow especially since its hollow points and given the status of current events. Not to mention the bulk of all this ordering was the middle of last year before elections.


One thing that really got my attention is why would the TSA order 700lbs of high density ammonium nitrate and 700 lbs of A-5 Flake RDX????? Were they really training dogs.

O ya heres the link for my info.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=list&tab=list

 

[redpitbull44]

I just want that much ammo and enough time and guns to shoot it all.

 

[Khazik]

I cant comment on the subject as my tin-foil hat was... 'destroyed', I find this particular subject "interesting" and coincidental, thats all I'm thinkin for now!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Anyone else here serve unnder the DHS?

 

[rooster]

Anyone else here serve unnder the DHS?

Even if someone did they cant talk about it. Especially not on a public internet forum.

 

[David]

Take your tinfoil hate off and get some fresh air. My unit alone fired 5,000 plus rounds of handgun ammunition a year. That's one unit of just the Coast Guard alone. Then you figure in Border Patrol, Customs, ATF, DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. You should really do your homework before screaming conspiracy.

DHS bought about 1 1/2 billion bullets last yer. DHS employs about 230.000 people. That gives them enough "training" ammo to supply every last employee, right down to the secretarial and janitorial staff, with 6,500 rounds of ammo to "train" with.

They only train with hollow points? A procurement order for .357sig FMJ training ammo. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...3a7b9723e5b7452711810b01d56&tab=core&_cview=0
9mm blanks. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...c0834a39da23e1cfc179958c9ef&tab=core&_cview=1
Commercial leaded training ammunition, doesn't sound like HP to me. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...8adb7fe40b7489fbbf5b86eaa0e&tab=core&_cview=1

A transcript from Congressional testimony, scroll down to page 8 where it states that the annual ammo consumption in the Iraq war is 70 million rounds. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SMALL-CALIBER AMMUNITION PROGRAMS AND THE ASSOCIATED INDUSTRIAL BASE
With what DHS bought last year alone we could supply ammo at that rate for 20 years.

If you want to believe that all of that ammo is strictly for training purposes, you go right ahead. I wont be joining you.

 

[DRob]

Economy of scale

Did it ever occur to you tinfoil hat wearers that buying in quantities like that may have saved them (and by extension, you) serious money? You may also want to consider the probability that these numbers are from long-term contracts and not necessarily delivered all at once.

Gravity still works. Apples will still hit you on the head if you hang around under the tree long enough. The sky still seems to be in place.

 

[Archer46176]

I was juat throwing this out there for conversation and for others to make up their own minds. I knew I would get a few tin foil hat comments and all but the one here was in "good fun"...LOL
Now then I for one do believe that they put out the contracts in an ATTEMPT to dry up the supply a bit atleast. I think there was a number cruncher behind a desk thinking that with your DHS, Military, PDs ect ect ect, if we contract for this amount there is NO WAY the general public will be able to "stock up". Well that person or persons forgot about some people BUT with their contracts and the buying craze it HAS effectively dried up supplies of severl calibers considered combat or popular calibers.
I know my hometown PD and SD has started searching the trunks of patrol cars for hoarded "range" ammo in case they need to distribute it. By hoarded "range" ammo I mean we, when I worked there, would all ask for extra ammo for training and squirrel a little away for the JUST IN CASE situations. It always stayed in the trunks so we were not stealing it and it was therefore available to anyone.
I know when I was in the Army from 2003-2008 we fired a lot of rounds but it was just a drop in the hat compared to the millions/ billions of rounds ordered by DHS.
Another thought I had was that they knew that this would haplen and placed the orders so they would secure any new production stuff during and after a buying run. In general no one would think to ask questions about DHS or public servants getting first dibs on new production ammo while the shelves for the general public go bare. Many people mostly the antis would welcome the lack of civilian ammo while the DHS/PDs/SDs/Military get all they can.
Again I was just thinking about this and threw it out there for discussion and to keep everyone thinking. We canot become complacent on stuff like this.

 

[David]

Did it ever occur to you tinfoil hat wearers that buying in quantities like that may have saved them (and by extension, you) serious money?

Even if our government were sitting on piles of cash and looking for a place to put it, I think they could find better places to invest it on my behalf. Instead, our government is borrowing/printing 46 of every 100 dollars it spends.

I have said before and I'll say again, history has proven nothing to be more dangerous than a broke desperate government.

Ours is beyond broke, we have been paying our bills with printed money since the crash of 08. Washington knows that this situation can not go on forever. They also know tht there is no way to tax or borrow money at the rate they are spending it. As a result, they are becoming increasingly desperate.