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Judge Scalia RIP
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I think you are wrong. We have an amendment process. It has been used. An originalist believes that you interpret the constitution the way it would have been understood when it was ratified. They also believe that if you want a different result, you amend it.
^^^ This.
Of course, a significant percentage would think we weren't very smart about what amendments we put into place. (I'm lookin' at you 17A.) Another important thing to consider is that they would fundamentally understand the need for compromise. That's what they all did.
Now, another important consideration is that it would be hard to get their attention away from free pr0n on the internet.
spencer rifle
Grandmaster
"(W)hen a strict interpretation of the Constitution ... is abandoned, and the theoretical opinions of individuals are allowed to control its meaning, we have no longer a Constitution; we are under the government of individual men, who for the time being have power to declare what the Constitution is, according to their own views of what it ought to mean."
— Supreme Court Justice Benjamin Curtiss, March 6, 1857, dissenting from the Dred Scott ruling that slaves were property
— Supreme Court Justice Benjamin Curtiss, March 6, 1857, dissenting from the Dred Scott ruling that slaves were property
The progressives can rely on the fact that most conservatives tend to prefer precedence and to some extent, originalism. Therefore conservative justices don't pose the threat of whims that progressives do. So once a decision is made by a progressive court, even a bad one, it's now precedence and thereafter it's harder still to get conservative justices willing to overturn it. It's a ***** being principled, because to fight against the unprincipled, you sometimes have to ditch your principles to win. And then you don't get to say you're principled anymore because you're just like them.
Ok, I want to clarify this thinking as I don't know if I disagree or not.
Under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution "The Congress shall have the power to... coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin..."
Does "originalist" thinking mean that we would have to amend the Constitution to print money instead of coining it? To my thinking an entirely too strict interpretation would be that we could not print money on paper, but I can see that viewpoint. I just don't agree with it. I would interpret the meaning as basically "Congress controls the currency of the United States" and can stamp coins AND print money. I don't believe it goes beyond currency.
I do know that there are some people that believe our current paper money is unconstitutional due to an extremely (I believe overly) strict interpretation.
So is this "originalist" thinking or not?
Thanks,
Doug
If paper money was in use at the time the constitution was ratified (which it was) and those who drafted the constitution believed that the constitution allowed this, then there's no problem.
RvW was mentioned, and I answered with that example. Let me be more clear- RvW, 10A, guns, pro-, anti-, whatever, is not what I care about. I want someone on the Bench that reads the words, puts them in the context they were intended, and gives a ruling based on that. It's not about Roe. It's about the Constitutionality of whatever issue they grant cert to hear.
We're not wholly on opposite sides of the abortion question, you and I. I'm just saying that that's only a portion of my litmus test. Not that it matters: I'm not the one being sworn in in just under 2 weeks.
Blessings,
Bill
We're not wholly on opposite sides of the abortion question, you and I. I'm just saying that that's only a portion of my litmus test. Not that it matters: I'm not the one being sworn in in just under 2 weeks.
Blessings,
Bill
On this we are eye to eye, no doubt. One thing's for certain, for a great many of us, our pet decisions would likely get flipped on their heads wih a court so populated.
I agree wholeheartedly with the previous comments that would interpret coining money to include paper money. Nonetheless, I want to point out another way of looking at the whole thing and I suspect that you actually understand all of this better than I do.
Coins are still minted by the US government, under the direction of the Treasury and by extension, Congress.
Paper money is issued by the Federal Reserve System, authorized by Congressional act, but run independently of both Treasury and Congress. The Fed involves the government, but it also involves commercial banks that hold stock and elect directors. So is paper money actually a product of the government or is it a product of the banks? Is there a constitutional issue if you conclude that ultimately it is the banks that are really responsible for issuing paper money? The quasi partnership of the government and the banking industry that the Fed represents makes it all kind of murky to me. I do think it is interesting that it is a government agency, the Bureau of Printing and Engraving, that prints the money, but they merely print it and then sell it to the Fed for the actual printing costs. It is the Fed that then waves the magic wand that turns it into money. I can't help but wonder if the constitutional issue you raise is a part of the reason that coin production and paper money production are independent of each other, or if it is just a coincidence due to the history of coins vs. paper money?
There was a very long time following the Revolution in which coins were issued by the government and paper money strictly by private banks, and that didn't really change until the government started issuing greenbacks during the Civil War. Even after that, the paper money always had language on it that made it clear that it was redeemable for coins, so technically, even though it was legal tender, the paper money was also a document that could be exchanged for coins, i.e. real money. This was all because paper money wasn't trusted by the public as a result of the worthless paper money issued by the Continental Congress. It wasn't until 1963 that they finally dropped the language indicating that the paper could be traded for coins, not coincidentally, the same time frame in which coins were no longer made out of precious metals of the same value as the nominal denomination.
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Good question, Doug.
I'd think that the phrasing would mean not that we have to change the Constitution, but that we have to stop printing paper money and do everything in coin, i.e. return to the gold standard, or possibly gold and silver.
No pun intended, but that's my
worth.
Blessings,
Bill
I'd think that the phrasing would mean not that we have to change the Constitution, but that we have to stop printing paper money and do everything in coin, i.e. return to the gold standard, or possibly gold and silver.
No pun intended, but that's my
worth.Blessings,
Bill
[h=3]John F. Kennedy -(1917-1963)-35th President of the United States-[/h][h=4]Assassinated in Office.
On June 4, 1963, President Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110.[/h]
This Executive Order called for the issuance of new currency -
the United States Note. At the time, $4,292,893 of this currency was put into circulation. This new currency was to be distributed through the U.S. Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System. Furthermore, it was to be issued debt and interest-free.
Upon Kennedy's assassination, this currency was withdrawn from circulation, never to be issued again.
On June 4, 1963, President Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110.[/h]
This Executive Order called for the issuance of new currency -
the United States Note. At the time, $4,292,893 of this currency was put into circulation. This new currency was to be distributed through the U.S. Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System. Furthermore, it was to be issued debt and interest-free.
Upon Kennedy's assassination, this currency was withdrawn from circulation, never to be issued again.
Who else still thinks the justice was assasinated by the direction of the government? I do
also I think they killed Kennedy for sure and his brother
also I think they killed Kennedy for sure and his brother
| See Essay on Colonial Scrip. Alexander Hamilton-(1755-1804) Founded the first central bank in the United States. International bankers saw that interest-free scrip would keep America free of their influence, so by 1781 banker-backed Alexander Hamilton succeeded in starting the Bank of America. After a few years of "bank money", the prosperity of "Colonial Scrip" was gone. Benjamin Franklin said, "Conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity had ended and a depression set in to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with the unemployed!" Bank money was like our FED money. It had debt and interest attached. By 1790 Hamilton and his bankers had created a privately owned central bank and converted the public debt (interest-free) into interest bearing bonds, payable to the bankers. When Hamilton's bank charter expired in 1811, the international bankers started the war of 1812. By 1816, another privately-owned U.S. bank was started with $35 million in assets - only $7 million of that was owned by the government. This bank lasted for 20 years. U.S. history shows that currency with debt and interest attached created a depression. {Alexander Hamilton was killed in a duel, in 1804 by Aaron Burr, a British Sympathizer.} Napoleon Bonaparte-(1769-1821) Emperor of France(1804-1815) Had a free hand in Europe as long as he borrowed from the Bank of Rothschilds. When he quit borrowing he was attacked by the English. Napoleon, a sympathizer for the international bankers, turned against them in the last years of his rule. He said: "When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes... Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Andrew Jackson, 7th U.S. President, 1829-1824 When the 1816 charter expired in 1836, Andrew Jackson vetoed its renewal. See Jackson's Veto Message to Congress It was then that he made two famous statements: "The Bank is trying to kill me - but I will kill it!" Later he said "If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system - there would be a revolution before morning..." Abraham Lincoln-(1809-1865) the 16th President of the U.S.-Assassinated while in Office. In his First Inaugural Address, Lincoln made a point to discuss the role of Capital and Labor. Significant national issues were, at that time, in the first official speech, immediately after a Presidential Election. Lincoln spoke on finances and government: "In his First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861, Abraham Lincoln stated: "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed, if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights." President Lincoln needed money to finance the Civil War, and the international bankers offered him loans at 24-36% interest. Lincoln balked at their demands because he didn't want to plunge the nation into such a huge debt. Lincoln approached Congress about passing a law to authorize the printing of U.S. Treasury Notes. Lincoln said "We gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they ever had - their own paper money to pay their debts..." Lincoln printed over 400 million "Greenbacks" (debt and interest-free) and paid the soldiers, U.S. government employees, and bought war supplies. The international bankers didn't like it and wanted Lincoln to borrow the money from them, so that the American people would owe tremendous interest on the loan. Lincoln's solution made this seem ridiculous. Shortly after Lincoln's death, the government revoked the Greenback law which ended Lincoln's debt-free, interest-free money. A new national banking act was enacted and all currency became interest-bearing, debt instruments, again. James A. Garfield-(1831-1881) 20th President of the United States. Assassinated in Office. President James A. Garfield said: "Whoever controls the money in any country is absolute master of industry [legislation] and commerce". Louis T. McFadden,-Chairman of the House Banking Committee-(1928-1935) After two attempts on his life in 1933-1934, McFadden died "mysteriously" in 1935. See His Comments in the Essay on Colonial Scrip. John F. Kennedy -(1917-1963)-35th President of the United States- Assassinated in Office. On June 4, 1963, President Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110. This Executive Order called for the issuance of new currency - the United States Note. At the time, $4,292,893 of this currency was put into circulation. This new currency was to be distributed through the U.S. Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System. Furthermore, it was to be issued debt and interest-free. Upon Kennedy's assassination, this currency was withdrawn from circulation, never to be issued again. See Kennedy Solution Return to The Subject Index of the Monetary System Page. Return to UWSA Money Page. |
| See Essay on Colonial Scrip. Alexander Hamilton-(1755-1804) Founded the first central bank in the United States. International bankers saw that interest-free scrip would keep America free of their influence, so by 1781 banker-backed Alexander Hamilton succeeded in starting the Bank of America. After a few years of "bank money", the prosperity of "Colonial Scrip" was gone. Benjamin Franklin said, "Conditions were so reversed that the era of prosperity had ended and a depression set in to such an extent that the streets of the Colonies were filled with the unemployed!" Bank money was like our FED money. It had debt and interest attached. By 1790 Hamilton and his bankers had created a privately owned central bank and converted the public debt (interest-free) into interest bearing bonds, payable to the bankers. When Hamilton's bank charter expired in 1811, the international bankers started the war of 1812. By 1816, another privately-owned U.S. bank was started with $35 million in assets - only $7 million of that was owned by the government. This bank lasted for 20 years. U.S. history shows that currency with debt and interest attached created a depression. {Alexander Hamilton was killed in a duel, in 1804 by Aaron Burr, a British Sympathizer.} Napoleon Bonaparte-(1769-1821) Emperor of France(1804-1815) Had a free hand in Europe as long as he borrowed from the Bank of Rothschilds. When he quit borrowing he was attacked by the English. Napoleon, a sympathizer for the international bankers, turned against them in the last years of his rule. He said: "When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes... Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Andrew Jackson, 7th U.S. President, 1829-1824 When the 1816 charter expired in 1836, Andrew Jackson vetoed its renewal. See Jackson's Veto Message to Congress It was then that he made two famous statements: "The Bank is trying to kill me - but I will kill it!" Later he said "If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system - there would be a revolution before morning..." Abraham Lincoln-(1809-1865) the 16th President of the U.S.-Assassinated while in Office. In his First Inaugural Address, Lincoln made a point to discuss the role of Capital and Labor. Significant national issues were, at that time, in the first official speech, immediately after a Presidential Election. Lincoln spoke on finances and government: "In his First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861, Abraham Lincoln stated: "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed, if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights." President Lincoln needed money to finance the Civil War, and the international bankers offered him loans at 24-36% interest. Lincoln balked at their demands because he didn't want to plunge the nation into such a huge debt. Lincoln approached Congress about passing a law to authorize the printing of U.S. Treasury Notes. Lincoln said "We gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they ever had - their own paper money to pay their debts..." Lincoln printed over 400 million "Greenbacks" (debt and interest-free) and paid the soldiers, U.S. government employees, and bought war supplies. The international bankers didn't like it and wanted Lincoln to borrow the money from them, so that the American people would owe tremendous interest on the loan. Lincoln's solution made this seem ridiculous. Shortly after Lincoln's death, the government revoked the Greenback law which ended Lincoln's debt-free, interest-free money. A new national banking act was enacted and all currency became interest-bearing, debt instruments, again. James A. Garfield-(1831-1881) 20th President of the United States. Assassinated in Office. President James A. Garfield said: "Whoever controls the money in any country is absolute master of industry [legislation] and commerce". Louis T. McFadden,-Chairman of the House Banking Committee-(1928-1935) After two attempts on his life in 1933-1934, McFadden died "mysteriously" in 1935. See His Comments in the Essay on Colonial Scrip. John F. Kennedy -(1917-1963)-35th President of the United States- Assassinated in Office. On June 4, 1963, President Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110. This Executive Order called for the issuance of new currency - the United States Note. At the time, $4,292,893 of this currency was put into circulation. This new currency was to be distributed through the U.S. Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System. Furthermore, it was to be issued debt and interest-free. Upon Kennedy's assassination, this currency was withdrawn from circulation, never to be issued again. See Kennedy Solution Return to The Subject Index of the Monetary System Page. Return to UWSA Money Page. |
I don't really want to take the time to go through all of the things in your post, it would take too much time and research, but I do want to deal with this one for the simple reason that it is easy since I have studied the Napoleonic era a fair amount.
The French Revolution began in 1789 and led to the Republic being declared in 1792. It led immediately to war between the European monarchies and France. This was known as the War of the First Coalition. It lasted 5 years, and primarily involved Prussia and Austria although the coalition included such nations as Great Britain, Spain, and the small nations that eventually came together to form Italy. It was during this war that Napoleon first began to make a name for himself by winning victories in Italy.
The War of the First Coalition was immediately followed in 1798 by the War of the Second Coalition. The period of peace had been very brief, and once again Great Britain was a part of the coalition. Russia was a new partner this time while Prussia had dropped out. It was during this war that Napoleon took over France in 1799. He was invited into a planned coup upon his return from Egypt. He was supposed to simply be the overall military commander in the new government, but he quickly outmaneuvered the other conspirators. He was appointed First Consul, effectively giving him dictatorial powers, but without officially naming him the sole head of state. France was already at war with 5 other nations when he assumed power.
The Treaty of Amiens brought a brief period of peace, but it only lasted 1 year and by May of 1803 England and France were at war again. The War of the Third Coalition lasted until 1806. It was during this war that Napoleon had himself declared Emperor in 1804. Napoleon defeated Austria leading it to withdraw from the coalition.
The War of the Fourth Coalition began immediately and once again included Great Britain. There was no period of peace, the name change was simply because of Austria dropping out.
The 4th coalition fell apart in 1807 when Russia was defeated, but once again Britain remained at war with France. The British were able to convince the Austrians to rejoin the conflict, leading to the War of the Fifth Coalition in 1809. Austria was defeated again, leaving England, Spain, and Portugal at war with France in the continuing Peninsular War.
Central Europe had a period of relative peace until Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812 triggering the War of the Sixth Coalition. This led to Napoleon being defeated and exiled to Elba. France was at war with England for the entire period that Napoleon was emperor, the entire time! It just was not always taking place in Central Europe.
The Rothschild banking empire began in Frankfurt, Germany. The French branch was founded by James Rothschild. He was born in 1792, making him 7 years old when Napoleon assumed power! It is doubtful Napoleon ever knew who he was, and he certainly never borrowed money from him. Napoleon's France was financed by the Banque de France, formed from a network of 15 Paris bankers. Rothschild was not one of them.
In summary; Napoleon never had a free hand in Europe, was always at war with England, and he never borrowed money from the Rothschild's. The Rothschild's did play a role in helping to finance the final English coalition that defeated him at Waterloo, but it wasn't because he had turned on them. They simply viewed his return to power as a threat to stability, a viewed shared by a great many others.
Regarding the quote attributed to Napoleon, it's pretty difficult to prove that somebody never said something, but I can't find a source for it that is credible. It appears to have been invented by R. McNair Wilson in 1933's Monarchy or Money Power.
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The interesting thing about Article I is that nowhere(?) in there when our founding fathers were discussing currency did they use any word but "coin."
Later, in Article I, Section 8 they go on to say that, "To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States."
I don't know legally what they are referring to when they use the word "securities." If securities does refer to currency then I am in error above.
In Article I, Section 10 "No state shall...coin money... ...make anything but gold or silver coin a payment a tender in payment of debts..."
But on a broader note the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights provides that "Congress shall make no law...abridging...the press..."
What do they mean with "press?" Clearly at that time there was no conceivable notion of a radio host, or television, or internet. Yet we liberals today don't attack the protection of reporters working for radio, television, or the internet.
I guess to my thinking I want the Constitution interpreted very liberally when it comes to protecting our rights and very conservatively when it comes to government power and its budget. To my limited understanding that was the overarching "original intent" of the Constitution - to protect our liberty and put a tight leash on governmental power.
Contrary to Justice Jackson, I DO believe the Constitution is a suicide pact, in a way. It lists those values that we are willing to kill for, and also to die for. For if we are not willing to die for our rights and freedoms then we default to allowing the fear of loss of life to always override our freedoms. I far prefer Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death." Clearly Justice Jackson didn't align himself with Mr. Henry's values.
Regards,
Doug
Later, in Article I, Section 8 they go on to say that, "To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States."
I don't know legally what they are referring to when they use the word "securities." If securities does refer to currency then I am in error above.
In Article I, Section 10 "No state shall...coin money... ...make anything but gold or silver coin a payment a tender in payment of debts..."
But on a broader note the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights provides that "Congress shall make no law...abridging...the press..."
What do they mean with "press?" Clearly at that time there was no conceivable notion of a radio host, or television, or internet. Yet we liberals today don't attack the protection of reporters working for radio, television, or the internet.
I guess to my thinking I want the Constitution interpreted very liberally when it comes to protecting our rights and very conservatively when it comes to government power and its budget. To my limited understanding that was the overarching "original intent" of the Constitution - to protect our liberty and put a tight leash on governmental power.
Contrary to Justice Jackson, I DO believe the Constitution is a suicide pact, in a way. It lists those values that we are willing to kill for, and also to die for. For if we are not willing to die for our rights and freedoms then we default to allowing the fear of loss of life to always override our freedoms. I far prefer Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death." Clearly Justice Jackson didn't align himself with Mr. Henry's values.
Regards,
Doug
