John Roberts: Extortion is perfectly legal so long as it is packaged as a tax.

[IndyDave1776]

Let's adopt the Chinese system.

Pay as you go is the norm, although some folks have insurance.

While the government does mandate many things there, there does not seem to be any movement toward universal health care or welfare like we have in the States.

I often wonder who are the communists?

It DOES make a person wonder, doesn't it?

 

[cobber]

It DOES make a person wonder, doesn't it?

I worry about the state of things here, given recent history. Maybe I'm just an old fogey.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I worry about the state of things here, given recent history. Maybe I'm just an old fogey.

No, you just have the ability to see how one action leads to an undesirable consequence, followed by a second, third, and so on. It defies my understanding that so many people cannot wrap their minds around the idea that if you were doing something that worked, you changed it, it stopped working properly, you changed it some more, it worked even worse, then you stop the stupid changes and go back to what worked. I would think that this should be painfully simple, but for some reason it apparently isn't.

 

[John Galt]

Insurance companies are just a part of "The System". "The System" is based on third-party payer, which is perfect for transferring/disguising fault and a perfect incubator for an entity (government) to take charge and "fix" the inherent flaws of a third-party payer system. Try this out, invite 12 of your friends out to dinner and tell them they can pick anywhere in Indiana to eat and that you'll drive them there and pick up the tab. My guess is that you'll be going to St. Elmo's and you'll have a monstrous tab. Now, tell them you'll drive, but they have to pay for their gas and meal. Now that everyone has some skin in the game, they're sensible. Too many consequences for individual decision making have been masked/subsidized and too many have been conditioned to believe that THEIR healthcare is the responsibility of someone else and the third-party payment system, along with an insane litigious environment and protected state borders make for perfect bread and circuses while we become further enslaved.
Marxism 101 ....

 

[cobber]

It seems to me all of this, whether we're talking insurance or Obamacare, is about the decline of personal responsibility in America. Pass the problem on to someone else, either an insurer or the nanny state. Giving up personal freedoms for convenience' sake.

I can understand why young people might be under the impression that this is a good thing. They have been brainwashed by years of schooling, government, and inattentive parents. It's always someone else's fault, or duty to make us feel good, heal us, etc. I just don't see that anyone is effectively combating this tendency.

This is truly a frightening turn of events.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Insurance companies are just a part of "The System". "The System" is based on third-party payer, which is perfect for transferring/disguising fault and a perfect incubator for an entity (government) to take charge and "fix" the inherent flaws of a third-party payer system. Try this out, invite 12 of your friends out to dinner and tell them they can pick anywhere in Indiana to eat and that you'll drive them there and pick up the tab. My guess is that you'll be going to St. Elmo's and you'll have a monstrous tab. Now, tell them you'll drive, but they have to pay for their gas and meal. Now that everyone has some skin in the game, they're sensible. Too many consequences for individual decision making have been masked/subsidized and too many have been conditioned to believe that THEIR healthcare is the responsibility of someone else and the third-party payment system, along with an insane litigious environment and protected state borders make for perfect bread and circuses while we become further enslaved.
Marxism 101 ....

Perfect!

 

[longbarrel]

Get over it. Obamacare is here to stay. (thanks to Justice Roberts) Let's wait and see what happens. It is bad though. We just have to make it work. It's not going to be repealed/overturned, and it is obviously within the gov't's rights to impose it. It's Socialism, it's Obama's/ Robert's fault.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Get over it. Obamacare is here to stay. (thanks to Justice Roberts) Let's wait and see what happens. It is bad though. We just have to make it work. It's not going to be repealed/overturned, and it is obviously within the gov't's rights to impose it. It's Socialism, it's Obama's/ Robert's fault.

Wrong, it is the peoples fault, we have been voting for this for years

 

[88GT]

Insurance companies are just a part of "The System". "The System" is based on third-party payer, which is perfect for transferring/disguising fault and a perfect incubator for an entity (government) to take charge and "fix" the inherent flaws of a third-party payer system. Try this out, invite 12 of your friends out to dinner and tell them they can pick anywhere in Indiana to eat and that you'll drive them there and pick up the tab. My guess is that you'll be going to St. Elmo's and you'll have a monstrous tab. Now, tell them you'll drive, but they have to pay for their gas and meal. Now that everyone has some skin in the game, they're sensible. Too many consequences for individual decision making have been masked/subsidized and too many have been conditioned to believe that THEIR healthcare is the responsibility of someone else and the third-party payment system, along with an insane litigious environment and protected state borders make for perfect bread and circuses while we become further enslaved.
Marxism 101 ....

Just as long as you and others realize that insurance isn't the problem. it's not even part of the problem. What two people consensually contract to is their business.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Just as long as you and others realize that insurance isn't the problem. it's not even part of the problem. What two people consensually contract to is their business.

You should win a prize for that post maam

 

[John Galt]

Just as long as you and others realize that insurance isn't the problem. it's not even part of the problem. What two people consensually contract to is their business.

Insurance is a part of the problem. Not the industry itself per we, but the notion of fractionally paying for a service that is then intended/expected to pick up the tab on EverythingMedical. THIS is what is exploited, and it is exploited very well by ThoseInPower ...

 

[actaeon277]

Quit crying and run for office.Dont forget to take your crystal ball.

So, inlineman,

How is the Affordable Care Act supposed to make healthcare affordable?
Doctors hired = zero
Nurses hired = zero
Loans to train people as doctors or nurses = zero

And how does it tax the "rich"? (an example of "coveting")
If you can't afford a healthcare plan, you will pay a fine (or tax whatever)
If you're employer cannot afford to offer you a healthcare plan, they will pay a fine.
Isn't that like taxing the homeless for not having a home?

It does however hire more IRS agents, and give them money to modify their tax system.
Now, you have to let them know you're healthcare plan, and your families. After all, now they have to determine if it's "good enough" to not rate a tax.

 

[Lex Concord]

ACA will not improve medical care in this country. Just ask Canadians and Brits.

Oh no, it will be different here, the Europeans have never had such a wise, Nobel, and fearless leader as we have now.

Maybe you should polish your crystal ball

 

[Lex Concord]

So, inlineman,

How is the Affordable Care Act supposed to make healthcare affordable?
Doctors hired = zero
Nurses hired = zero
Loans to train people as doctors or nurses = zero

And how does it tax the "rich"? (an example of "coveting")
If you can't afford a healthcare plan, you will pay a fine (or tax whatever)
If you're employer cannot afford to offer you a healthcare plan, they will pay a fine.
Isn't that like taxing the homeless for not having a home?

It does however hire more IRS agents, and give them money to modify their tax system.
Now, you have to let them know you're healthcare plan, and your families. After all, now they have to determine if it's "good enough" to not rate a tax.

I think you can count on some doctors leaving practice because of this attempt to polish a

I don't have a crystal ball, but I have had doctors tell me exactly this.

Of course, the government will try to fix this new problem that they won't even realize they created...maybe there will be legislation or regulation to relax med school entry reqs to get the numbers up.

We'll probably hit NHS hole status within 15 years...I HOPE you enjoy waiting even longer for the CNA to CHANGE your diaper, America.

 

[Lex Concord]

I ddont like the idea of losing what I have worked my whole life for because of an inflated hospital bill.The insurance companies are not going away like in your dream so in my opinion this is the best answer,and for once someone is trying to lookout for the poor. I thought id never see it but im sure glad I voted for it.

Pretty young, aren't you?

 

[88GT]

Insurance is a part of the problem. Not the industry itself per we, but the notion of fractionally paying for a service that is then intended/expected to pick up the tab on EverythingMedical. THIS is what is exploited, and it is exploited very well by ThoseInPower ...

You can't seem to disconnect the exploitation BY GOVERNMENT from the contractual nature of a business relationship, can you?

There is no exploitation if government is kept out of the equation.

What do you care if I and 15 (or 15,000) others decide to let each other cover the costs of one person's claim? That's the nature of insurance. It's a gamble and every player participating knows it up front. Tell me how that's a problem.

 

[Lex Concord]

You can't seem to disconnect the exploitation BY GOVERNMENT from the contractual nature of a business relationship, can you?

There is no exploitation if government is kept out of the equation.

What do you care if I and 15 (or 15,000) others decide to let each other cover the costs of one person's claim? That's the nature of insurance. It's a gamble and every player participating knows it up front. Tell me how that's a problem.

You obviously haven't been on the circle when a WellPoint executive pops out of HQ and drags some unsuspecting passerby in and forces them to sign an insurance contract at gunpoint...it's usually quite a show, especially when it's Angela Braly that does it.

 

[swany11]

The big problem is people are brainwashed in thinking that health insurance is some sort of membership that gives you cheap prescriptions and low co-pays, ala Sam’s Club and Costco. It is INSURANCE. It protects you in case you become sick. You don’t get it when you need it. You get it IN CASE you need it.

Would you wait until you get into a car accident to buy auto insurance? Or wait until your house is burned down to buy home insurance? Of course not. That is why this is mandatory…they need everyone to sign up right away. It is the "Law of Large Numbers". The healthy people need to offset the non-healthy. I just wish you could opt out…but pay all back premiums plus a significant penalty if you come back and say “whoops, my bad. Can I come back and play?”.

 

[cobber]

You can't seem to disconnect the exploitation BY GOVERNMENT from the contractual nature of a business relationship, can you?

There is no exploitation if government is kept out of the equation.

What do you care if I and 15 (or 15,000) others decide to let each other cover the costs of one person's claim? That's the nature of insurance. It's a gamble and every player participating knows it up front. Tell me how that's a problem.

I'll take a stab. Insurance pooling leads to a rise in fees, since individual consumers no longer see/care what they're paying. This is a problem in that it drains the pool faster, and for those folks who have less-than-optimal (or no) insurance, it can put some procedures out of reach.

I would hazard that since the rise in health insurance paperwork costs have skyrocketed. I would also guess that the rise in med mal correlates to the rise in health insurance. But I might be wrong.

 

[Fletch]

I'll take a stab. Insurance pooling leads to a rise in fees, since individual consumers no longer see/care what they're paying. This is a problem in that it drains the pool faster, and for those folks who have less-than-optimal (or no) insurance, it can put some procedures out of reach.

I would hazard that since the rise in health insurance paperwork costs have skyrocketed. I would also guess that the rise in med mal correlates to the rise in health insurance. But I might be wrong.

Standard medical insurance which pays for every little sniffle is a result of government's interference in the health care market. Catastrophic medical insurance is a natural product of the market itself, since it's designed to ameliorate and socialize unforeseen risk.

Insurance is not inherently evil. Some industries could not survive without it, because the risk would be too great to do business at reasonable prices, and they'd have no customers. It is the government's interference in the market that causes insurance costs to spiral out of control, and that is where we should direct our ire. A private company attempting to deal with the business environment it's been dealt is no more at fault than the consumer who's run over by random circumstance.