IWI Tavor wins 2014 NRA Golden Bullseye award

[strokin7.3]

I think rhino is on the money. Full disclosure, most of two decades in the military, lots of time training on an m16. Now I have both ARs and a tavor, and love both... But I can't fathom a way that a reload on the tavor could be as smooth and efficient as on an ar. Maybe someone has figured it out, but I've never seen anyone crack that nut. For some things I prefer the tavor, but a fast reload isn't one of those things.

one quick google search...
[video=youtube_share;5_ULLl-8jk0]http://youtu.be/5_ULLl-8jk0[/video]

 

[rhino]

I think rhino is on the money. Full disclosure, most of two decades in the military, lots of time training on an m16. Now I have both ARs and a tavor, and love both... But I can't fathom a way that a reload on the tavor could be as smooth and efficient as on an ar. Maybe someone has figured it out, but I've never seen anyone crack that nut. For some things I prefer the tavor, but a fast reload isn't one of those things.

You are clearly an erudite and perceptive individual.

 

[rhino]

That is exactly it. People who say the ar's controls are the best obviously have them ingrained and don't know any better. I've got an ar now but the Tavor is much faster with better balance and ergos. Only plus to the ar is its quite a bit lighter.

Seriously? Condescending toward a lot of people you don't know much?

I could say something like, "Fanboys of the Tavor think the ergonomics are better because they have an emotional investment in their purchase and have to convince themselves that the extra money they paid was really worth it. They don't really know any better."

See what I did there?

Anyway, regardless of whether or not some people with the right body mechanics can learn to reload a Tavor quickly (as in your video), if you take 100 people and give them an hour to practice with reloads using both platforms, it's unlikely that the results for the Tavor are going to compare favorably. I could be wrong, but probably not (and I'm not going to say that you don't know any better). Let's make it more fun: start shooting, then switch to the support side, and THEN do the reload. Yeah, we know which platform wins there.

The superior trigger of the AR is easily verified. Sure, you can upgrade a Tavor trigger to make it almost as good as an AR trigger, but then you can also upgrade an AR trigger to make it a lot better than that.

 

[JTF101]

Seriously? Condescending toward a lot of people you don't know much?

Anyway, regardless of whether or not some people with the right body mechanics can learn to reload a Tavor quickly (as in your video), if you take 100 people and give them an hour to practice with reloads using both platforms, it's unlikely that the results for the Tavor are going to compare favorably. I could be wrong, but probably not (and I'm not going to say that you don't know any better). Let's make it more fun: start shooting, then switch to the support side, and THEN do the reload. Yeah, we know which platform wins there.

This is a better video for understanding how that person is reloading so quickly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKC9SSloTFs. I just got my Tavor and I was amazed at how easy a fast reload is by following this guy's steps. Flex your right hand to touch the mag release as you reach your left hand for a fresh mag, and stick out your thumb out as you seat the new one to bump the bolt release. In about 5 minutes I was reloading just as quickly as the guy in the video.

 

[strokin7.3]

Let's make it more fun: start shooting, then switch to the support side, and THEN do the reload. Yeah, we know which platform wins there.

I'd say the Tavor since everything is ambi and you don't have to do anything different?

 

[iChokePeople]

I'll admit, that cat in the video is fast.

You seem to think that those who still see advantages to the ar are ar fanboys who just don't want to give the tavor a chance. I hunted one down EARLY, and have been a tavor (and fs2000) advocate... But I still think there are some areas in which the ar is the winner.

 

[rhino]

You seem to think that those who still see advantages to the ar are ar fanboys who just don't want to give the tavor a chance. I hunted one down EARLY, and have been a tavor (and fs2000) advocate... But I still think there are some areas in which the ar is the winner.

I will have one!

I did like Patti's FS2000, but I like the Tavor better. I think that mag release alone puts it ahead of the bullpuppy competition. It makes that inherently unwieldy task of reloading significantly less so.

As far as the video goes? My last comment will be this analogy: there might be a dozen INGO members (probably less) who can reload a self-loading pistol as fast as Jerry Miculek and a couple of his peers can reload a revolver. Jerry is really, really good at doing that reload and if we base our opinion on his skill, we might conclude that reloading a revolver is faster and easier than a self-loader. Then, put a self-loader in his hands and watch him do that faster than he can his revolver. The bottom line is that it is inherently easier and faster to reload a self-loader than it is a revolver, regardless of what some highly skilled individuals can do to seemingly illustrate otherwise.

 

[iChokePeople]

I'll add one more small comment... I have one other small issue with this method: I like techniques that work reliably with any normal, common magazines. Unless my tavor is unusually tight (or I'm unusually huge...), this technique only works with usgi-type mags, or maybe if you took a dremel to the tavor. Maybe mine is weird, but neither iwi nor magpul pmags drop free from my rifle when empty. I only run usgi, magpul, and iwi at the moment, so can't speak to others.

 

[strokin7.3]

I'll add one more small comment... I have one other small issue with this method: I like techniques that work reliably with any normal, common magazines. Unless my tavor is unusually tight (or I'm unusually huge...), this technique only works with usgi-type mags, or maybe if you took a dremel to the tavor. Maybe mine is weird, but neither iwi nor magpul pmags drop free from my rifle when empty. I only run usgi, magpul, and iwi at the moment, so can't speak to others.

Are your pmags gen 2? My gen 2 pmag wont drop free, but all of my gen 3 pmags drop just fine. The polymer IWI mag that came with it is hit or miss so it just sits on the shelf most the time

 

[strokin7.3]

I will have one!

I did like Patti's FS2000, but I like the Tavor better. I think that mag release alone puts it ahead of the bullpuppy competition. It makes that inherently unwieldy task of reloading significantly less so.

As far as the video goes? My last comment will be this analogy: there might be a dozen INGO members (probably less) who can reload a self-loading pistol as fast as Jerry Miculek and a couple of his peers can reload a revolver. Jerry is really, really good at doing that reload and if we base our opinion on his skill, we might conclude that reloading a revolver is faster and easier than a self-loader. Then, put a self-loader in his hands and watch him do that faster than he can his revolver. The bottom line is that it is inherently easier and faster to reload a self-loader than it is a revolver, regardless of what some highly skilled individuals can do to seemingly illustrate otherwise.

I can post more videos if you like. It's not like there are only a handful of people that can reload a tavor just as fast as an AR. There is not a lot to it. Next time you get to fondle a Tavor practice it a little, you will catch on quickly.

[video=youtube_share;YgNjfXbjrk0]http://youtu.be/YgNjfXbjrk0[/video]