IU Student Sexually Assaulted At Gunpoint

[Vigilant]

They walk around by themselves in the middle of the night and are surprised when this crap happens.

She was in her house! Maybe shouldn't have answered the door, but she wasn't traipsing around town!

 

[cobber]

No. You need to teach both. It's not a woman's fault if they're attacked. They should be able to walk across campus unmolested just as I ought to be able to leave my wallet on a park bench and expect it to be there when I come back. We should be able to let our 8 year old kids go to the park and spend the afternoon playing. People shouldn't touch anything that does not belong to them -- another person or another person's property.

But evil, sin, and wickedness abounds in this world. Not everybody is going to teach their kids to not rob, rape, and assualt other people; even if every parent did, not every person is going to accept that lesson and live it. I don't like it that young kids or young women are targeted by evil people. I don't accept or condone any assertion it is the kids' or womens' fault. But we must take some responsibility for our own safety and the safety of our loved ones. We must equip them with the best tools we can so that they can stay as safe as they can when we're not there to protect them. We shoudn't assume some authority or somebody else will be there to protect us.

Crime is as old as human society, and not likely ever to be eliminated. Frankly it's not only young women and kids who are targeted. Anyone who is perceived as "weak". If I go walking or driving through certain Chicago neighborhoods at 1 am, it's not my "fault" if I'm attacked, but it was reasonably foreseeable that it might happen, and it is on me to be vigilant and take reasonable precautions.


As to 'teaching men not to rape' that is one of the purposes of the prosecution and punishment of rapists, to deter others. It may work in some cases, but as we see from murder, rape and other crimes of violence, the lessons of deterrence are frequently unlearned by those they are directed at.

In the end, there is no evidence that evil can be reasoned with, or 'taught away'.

 

[kalboy]

Fellas, I know this is INGO and we like to pick a nit and argue about it until we're blue in the face. But you're right. The story didn't say anything about her walking around by herself. Nobody hinted at that. If you'll review the posts, the story's link was posed, another poster mentioned that too many young women walk around and me and others agreed that does happen---didn't necessarily happen in this case --- but they put themselves at risk for it to happen.

Absolutely . However so much mention was made of being on the streets late at night one had to wonder if there was more to the story than being reported in the OP article. It was also a bit confusing that no one was stating the also obvious and pertinent in this case danger of opening the door to those not known.

 

[bwframe]

We don't need to teach women how not to get raped...

I don't believe that is what anyone here is trying to say. The problem is that it is a regular occurrence for very inebriated females to end up raped, killed or missing in Bloomington. These terrible things nearly always happen at drunk-thirty AM.

Is it the female's fault? NO.
Would they have not encountered the circumstances that harmed them had they not been falling down drunk in the middle of the night? Very possibly.

It doesn't sound like the same situation applies to the poor woman in the OP here, but the association is not unreasonable considering IU/Bloomington's record.

 

[Rarejewell]

No. You need to teach both. It's not a woman's fault if they're attacked. They should be able to walk across campus unmolested just as I ought to be able to leave my wallet on a park bench and expect it to be there when I come back. We should be able to let our 8 year old kids go to the park and spend the afternoon playing. People shouldn't touch anything that does not belong to them -- another person or another person's property.

But evil, sin, and wickedness abounds in this world. Not everybody is going to teach their kids to not rob, rape, and assualt other people; even if every parent did, not every person is going to accept that lesson and live it. I don't like it that young kids or young women are targeted by evil people. I don't accept or condone any assertion it is the kids' or womens' fault. But we must take some responsibility for our own safety and the safety of our loved ones. We must equip them with the best tools we can so that they can stay as safe as they can when we're not there to protect them. We shoudn't assume some authority or somebody else will be there to protect us.

I agree with you about teaching both. I can tell you that as a woman it has been pounded into our heads from a young age. And we should be able to protect ourselves, including being armed on a college campus.

And since I don't know how to do multiple quotes someone mentioned that that you can't teach the evil out of people, or something similar, but many men think that a passed out girl is ok to assault because she didn't say no. Or that even when a girl says no she is playing hard to get or doesn't mean it. Or that a woman is asking for it because of what she is wearing.

I get a little defensive about this type of subject because I am sick of hearing that "if only she would have," or "if only she wouldn't have." As a woman that is very offensive to me. I agree that women need to reduce vulnerabilities but you can't get rid of them all.

 

[actaeon277]

I agree with you about teaching both. I can tell you that as a woman it has been pounded into our heads from a young age. And we should be able to protect ourselves, including being armed on a college campus.

And since I don't know how to do multiple quotes someone mentioned that that you can't teach the evil out of people, or something similar, but many men think that a passed out girl is ok to assault because she didn't say no. Or that even when a girl says no she is playing hard to get or doesn't mean it. Or that a woman is asking for it because of what she is wearing.

I get a little defensive about this type of subject because I am sick of hearing that "if only she would have," or "if only she wouldn't have." As a woman that is very offensive to me. I agree that women need to reduce vulnerabilities but you can't get rid of them all.

Multiple Quotes.
To the right of the "Reply with Quote" button is a "bubble with a plus sign". This is for multi-quoting. Use that until you make your last quote. The last quote, use the "Reply with Quote" button.



"...but many men think that a passed out girl is ok to assault..."
I'm sure, or at least I'd hope, that many here teach their sons otherwise.
But, if 999 out of 1000 receive that, and follow it, there is still that 1 out of 1000.

I should be able to walk to work through Gary, IN with $20 bills hanging out of my pocket. If I did, and got robbed, it wouldn't be my fault. It would be the fault of the person robbing me.
But.... knowing that I increase the chances of being robbed by doing so, I refrain from walking down the street with $20 hanging out of my pockets.
You can substitute "walking down the street late at night", or "not maintaining situational awareness" or whatever to the above.
The attacker is the one at fault.
But the person wishing to not be attacked, there are things you can do to change your odds. Not completely, just the odds.


For the record, I don't have any children. But I'd teach my sons some morals, such as, it is not okay to have sex with an unconscious person, assault someone, etc.
And if they decided to ignore my advice, and I found out, I assume I would turn them in.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I got the phone calls too. Changing my alert settings to not get them.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I got the phone calls too. Changing my alert settings to not get them.

My wife is the one that thought it was important we get them, since she works up there. Funny thing is, she never hears the stupid phone ring in the middle of the night ---- for that important news--she feels a need to know.

 

[Rarejewell]

Multiple Quotes.
To the right of the "Reply with Quote" button is a "bubble with a plus sign". This is for multi-quoting. Use that until you make your last quote. The last quote, use the "Reply with Quote" button.

Thank you for the information!

 

[actaeon277]

Thank you for the information!

Welcome.

 

[bwframe]

...many men think that a passed out girl is ok to assault because she didn't say no. Or that even when a girl says no she is playing hard to get or doesn't mean it. Or that a woman is asking for it because of what she is wearing...

This is not true. Criminals may think this but not "many men."

 

[kalboy]

This is not true. Criminals may think this but not "many men."

Well said!

 

[Expat]

We don't need to teach women how not to get raped. We need to teach men NOT to rape.

Maybe we could put up No Rape Zone signs and stop this sort of thing.

 

[kalboy]

Maybe we could put up No Rape Zone signs and stop this sort of thing.

Yes, that's just the thing......

 

[chipbennett]

We don't need to teach women how not to get raped. We need to teach men NOT to rape.

The whole "teach men not to rape" thing is basically feminist nonsense that completely misses the point. Evil will always exist in our world. For the men who have the moral and psychological ability - much less, predisposition - to engage in the kind of evil that would allow them to commit a forcible rape, you will never be able to "teach them" not to rape. You might as well seek out unicorn riding lessons.

And teach women to avoid at risk stations if possible. But it is on the men NOT women to stop this behavior.

Not going to happen. Evil people are going to act with evil intent. They are not "teachable". They cannot be rehabilitated. They will not "stop"; they can only BE stopped. Lock them up when they commit such a heinous crime, and never let them out. And teach women to defend themselves - both using firearms, and situational awareness.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Crime is as old as human society, and not likely ever to be eliminated. Frankly it's not only young women and kids who are targeted. Anyone who is perceived as "weak". If I go walking or driving through certain Chicago neighborhoods at 1 am, it's not my "fault" if I'm attacked, but it was reasonably foreseeable that it might happen, and it is on me to be vigilant and take reasonable precautions.


As to 'teaching men not to rape' that is one of the purposes of the prosecution and punishment of rapists, to deter others. It may work in some cases, but as we see from murder, rape and other crimes of violence, the lessons of deterrence are frequently unlearned by those they are directed at.

In the end, there is no evidence that evil can be reasoned with, or 'taught away'.

many men think that a passed out girl is ok to assault because she didn't say no. Or that even when a girl says no she is playing hard to get or doesn't mean it. Or that a woman is asking for it because of what she is wearing.

I went to college for quite a while, on more than one campus, and earned three degrees including an MS in geology, but in all of my time on campus (and throughout the rest of my life for that matter), I never ONCE met a male who actually thought that any of the things you listed was OK. Maybe I hang out around a better class of people than the average, but characterizing "many men" the way that you did is wrong.

The whole "teach men not to rape" thing is basically feminist nonsense that completely misses the point. Evil will always exist in our world. For the men who have the moral and psychological ability - much less, predisposition - to engage in the kind of evil that would allow them to commit a forcible rape, you will never be able to "teach them" not to rape. You might as well seek out unicorn riding lessons.Not going to happen. Evil people are going to act with evil intent. They are not "teachable". They cannot be rehabilitated. They will not "stop"; they can only BE stopped. Lock them up when they commit such a heinous crime, and never let them out. And teach women to defend themselves - both using firearms, and situational awareness.

I agree with all of what Chip said. The whole teach men not to rape thing really rubbed me the wrong way; it's feminist drivel that blames all men for the acts of a few thugs who likely don't respect ANYBODY'S (male or female) rights. FWIW, I have personally taught the basics of shooting and self defense to female friends, both during college and here at my work because evil exists and the only way to stop it is with force. It doesn't matter whether it's rape, robbery, or some other crime against a person, but "education" does not and will not work because the "people" who are willing to harm someone else in such a personal way are literally mentally different - they don't have empathy for you and no amount of talking is going to change that; they only change their behavior due to their own self interest (i.e. - wanting to avoid punishment or being killed in the act).

 

[Doug]

It's hard to add credence to the "teach men not to rape" stuff when women like Whoopi Goldberg say Roman Polanski didn't "really" rape that thirteen year old girl because he used alcohol and Quaaludes to break down her resistance instead of using violence to force her compliance.

A woman who gets passed-out drunk and is naked in a public park at midnight doesn't deserve to be raped; neither do men deserve to be blamed for the actions of a few animals which, most of us, if we gave in to our emotions, would happily beat to death.

 

[bwframe]

Bloomington police: Armed sexual assault and home invasion report "untruthful" - HeraldTimesOnline: Local News

Bloomington police say an armed sexual assault and home invasion on Nov. 17 did not happen as reported by the complainant.


Police said in a news release Friday that an investigation found the report to be "untruthful".


“Based on the seriousness of the alleged incident, we dedicated extensive resources to fully investigate it. The investigation revealed that the incident did not happen as reported and it is important for us to let the community know in an effort to alleviate the fear and anxiety it caused,” said BPD spokesperson Captain Joe Qualters in the news release.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Bloomington police: Armed sexual assault and home invasion report "untruthful" - HeraldTimesOnline: Local News

Bloomington police say an armed sexual assault and home invasion on Nov. 17 did not happen as reported by the complainant.


Police said in a news release Friday that an investigation found the report to be "untruthful".


“Based on the seriousness of the alleged incident, we dedicated extensive resources to fully investigate it. The investigation revealed that the incident did not happen as reported and it is important for us to let the community know in an effort to alleviate the fear and anxiety it caused,” said BPD spokesperson Captain Joe Qualters in the news release.

Weeeeeeelllllllll.....

 

[bwframe]

Weeeeeeelllllllll.....

The story seemed odd from the get go. I almost said something of that nature, but how do you get away with that without sounding like a ... ?