Is the carry of a 1911 possibly fatal 4 U???

[451_Detonics]

The OP's info is about as useless as a truckload of dead rats in a tampon factory.

 

[Joe Williams]

The OP's info is about as useless as a truckload of dead rats in a tampon factory.

Ya know, I don't think the women actually look inside those little tubes to see what's in there. Are they really paying enough attention to notice the difference between a string and a tail? In today's economy, I'm not sure I'd look a gift horse in the mouth if I were running a factory!

 

[BillD]

"The method of shooting that is shown in the short video is for close quarters use, and can be learned and maintained with little or no training. "

I'm sure this appeals to the mall ninja crowd who like to buy guns but don't have any money left over for ammo. They all want a technique they can learn once and never have to train again. Just part of being a ninja!

 

[asquinton]

I've never seen that shooting technique ever. I've seen a few competitive shooters that are really good and none use that technique. Folks that shoot competitively that aren't being paid by a gun manufacturer predominately shoot 1911 pistols. I'd vote the developer of the technique is a DA.

 

[5shot]

Here's a link to an article I put together on why use the PS method which i consider for use in CQB not competition.

AIMED Point Shooting or P&S

Here's a link to one that addresses the problem with the 1911. (The design prevents the user from using the PS method which is deadly effective at CQ from being used with the 1911.) That's my only concern and nothing to get so upset about. Also keep in mind that the hit rate in CQB is < 20% using tried and true marksmanship. Not my idea of good.

AIMED Point Shooting or P&S

Here's one that addresses the grip issue, which clearly is misunderstood and refects how ingrained the thinking is on the marksmanship grip (brainwashed).

http://www.pointshooting.com/1apsgrip.htm

And here's a link to my page of pics and videos of Sight Shooting being used effectively in CQB situations over the hundred or so years it's been the what to do in a gunfight.

http://www.pointshooting.com/1april1.htm

Hey, guess I'll be 75 this Oct.

Lastly, been at this for 10 years or so, so I have heard the same complaints over and over.

I'll change my thinking, when the hit rate goes up and Police casualty rates go down.

What I have tried to do is address the issues that have come up with info and facts via articles on my site and for free. Help yourself and buy nothing.

I'll start a thread on PS only which I am sure will be much duller.

 

[printcraft]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...l_4_u_using_my_new_technique.html#post1043986

 

[melensdad]

I'll change my thinking, when the hit rate goes up and Police casualty rates go down.

What I have tried to do is address the issues that have come up ...

I'd like to see some evidence that your technique makes the hit rate go up and that the police casualty rate goes down. Do you have any independent study to bear out the 'facts' that you present? Are there any competition shooters, police departments, LEO agencies who have adopted your technique?

I've been shooting 1911 pistols for over 25 years and have NEVER once seen or heard of the types of problems that you are addressing.

 

[JeremySS]

Ok, for kicks and grins I decided to try this grip and shooting method to determine the outcome of both the effectiveness of the grip method in a possible CQB situation and to see if I can replicate a slide stop failure while using this grip. Here are my findings.

(Disclaimer: I am not an expert of any kind on any of the techniques or weapons below and this information is based on my observations only)

Weapon- Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II

Accuracy- As awkward as it felt in the beginning I was supervised to see that after only a short period of practice time, accuracy was within 10% or so of my standard isosceles stance when doing rapid draw techniques using only the iron sights. So in reality it was no better or no worse at short distances out to 15 yards. Out past 15 yards the accuracy and precision fell off rapidly as I never could get a good touch on the trigger with my middle finger due to the length of pull. The trigger lies at my middle joint of my middle finger using this technique on this weapon.

Speed- After becoming "comfortable" with the grip I tried some speed drills using the point and shoot method of the described grip vs a front sight method using just the iron sights. I was consistently quicker on target with very little sacrifice in accuracy using the point and shoot grip method in comparison to my standard grip. I was surprised it worked as well as it did. As a real speed world test for my specific weapon I compared back against using the laser with my standard grip. There was no significant difference in speed during this test and accuracy was much better with the laser. I was not able to use the modified grip with the laser as my index finger blocked the laser beam. Furthermore I was not able to test low light situations, this may be an area where this style grip starts to shine of you do not have night sights or a laser on your weapon.

On the Move- Here is where things started to break down. While I am not a great shot while changing positions, this new grip exacerbated issues due to the lack of lateral control I had on the weapon. I was not able to conclude the test because I felt that I did not have good enough muzzle control to safely continue.

Weapon Retention- After the previous test I thought more about this one and decided to give it a go. Let's just say that you had better shoot the bad guy before he gets near enough to you to challenge you for the weapon.

Reliability- So this is the crux of the OP argument, that reliability on the 1911 would be a fatal flaw, and using this grip....he is right. However, not for the reason he would let us believe. The reason is that my index finger comes no where near the pin on my 1911. Maybe it is different for people with small hands or on a different design of 1911 But it was easy for me to see that this would not be an issue for me on this weapon and during the tests, that proved to be true. I did not suffer a single slide stop malfunction in the 100+ rounds fired using the modified grip. So why is reliability a fatal flaw? Because I suffered more FTF an FTE issues using this grip than I have ever seen on any other gun, ever. Maybe I am a puss who has limp wrists with this grip, but considering I am 6'1", 210 lbs, and still very strong, I doubt it. Even though I had zero failures using my normal grip (and only had a few FTE failures early in the life of the weapon and only on the shelved stock mag), I thought that maybe it is just the 1911 is too sensitive to this modified grip? So I tried my SigPro 40 S&W that has never had a single failure of any kind in it's 500+ rounds of living. I shot 50 rounds using the modified grip and had 2 FTE's

Conclusion- While the accuracy and speed of the style of grip is debatable, it is also completely irrelevant. For me the significant decreases in reliability, on the move accuracy, controllability, and CQB type weapons retention make this grip on any platform a non-starter.

 

[ultraspec]

LMAO the OP got blasted on officer.com a couple of weeks ago for his weak arguments on this same topic.

I guess he doesnt learn

 

[BillD]

LMAO the OP got blasted on officer.com a couple of weeks ago for his weak arguments on this same topic.

I guess he doesnt learn

He's been blasted just about everywhere but he's trying to SELL something.

 

[JeremySS]

LMAO the OP got blasted on officer.com a couple of weeks ago for his weak arguments on this same topic.

I guess he doesnt learn

My cop friend who is a firearms instructor for his PD: I would advise against using that type of grip in any real world situation.

My FIL who is an ex-marine and served in Vietnam: WTF? Why would you risk loosing control of your weapon with such a grip?