Is the carry of a 1911 possibly fatal 4 U???

[5shot]

Just uploaded a short video to U-tube that discusses the 1911's slide stop pin problem - a fatal one for a 1911 user.

If someone plans to use a 1911 for self defense, he/she may wish to check it out.

The method of shooting that is shown in the short video is for close quarters use, and can be learned and maintained with little or no training.

Just use safe gun handling practices and common sense.

It provides the shooter not using a 1911 with an automatic and correct FSP and an automatic and correct Sight Picture. All he/she need do, is point-n-pull.

To use it with a 1911 or a gun like the 1911, the gun must be modified or it may jam on you, and at the worst possible time, which could be the best of times for the one tryinhg to kill you.

Here's the U-tube link:

YouTube - The 1911's slide stop pin - a fatal flaw?

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A misc. item for those who like airplanes:

I also updated my page of WW II fighter pics and fly-by videos.

Here's the link: Pictures And Short Fly-by Videos of WW II Fighter Aircraft

And here are links to 2 nice group pics:

Hopefully, I will get some new videos and pics this weekend and others during this summer.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I know of NO ONE, nor have i heard of ANYONE, that uses that shooting technique. most people pull the trigger with thier..... wait for it.... well...... trigger finger, and many many people are more than competant and successful shooting this way.... if you REALLY REALLY want some sort of mod done bring it to me and for a fee (probably somewhat substantial) i can either thread it for an allen screw to hold it in place, or add some material w/ a tig welder, then reshape the pin, and add an E clip to hold it in place.

 

[melensdad]

I've been shooting 1911 pistols for roughly 25 years, never had a slide stop induced jam, ever. Never heard of that shooting style used, ever. Never seen that shooting style, ever. Never been to a class that advocated that shooting style, ever. Never had a competitive shooting instructor describe, demonstrate or advocate that style, ever.

Heck my wife never even told me I was doing it wrong by using my index finger to pull the trigger and she always corrects me when I'm wrong!

 

[Colt556]

Was that VID made by Glock? I like the WWII fighters. I build and collect models/books on the subject of WWII and the equipment used.

 

[printcraft]

I guess since I use the "old" style of shooting method I should be fine with my 1911.

That "method" looks incredible awkward.
You are essentially holding onto the handgun with your ring finger and your pinky finger.
Seems like you would be losing some major stability, not to mention that
if you were in close quarters would you rather have 3 fingers wrapped
around your grip or 2 when someone grabs your gun?

That video was probably made by a 1911 hater.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I've been shooting 1911 pistols for roughly 25 years, never had a slide stop induced jam, ever. Never heard of that shooting style used, ever. Never seen that shooting style, ever. Never been to a class that advocated that shooting style, ever. Never had a competitive shooting instructor describe, demonstrate or advocate that style, ever.

Heck my wife never even told me I was doing it wrong by using my index finger to pull the trigger and she always corrects me when I'm wrong!

i have seen plenty of malfunctions caused by the slide stop, but its from someone thinking its a drop in part, putting it in the gun, w/out shaping the portion that sits inside the magwell and causes the slide to lock back on an empty mag.... sometimes depending on the gun this needs to be shaped so the next round moving UP in the mag doesnt snag on it and force it up prematurly....

that said, thinking about the mechanics of a 1911 i dont even see how pressure on the slide stop would even cause a malfunction.

 

[shooter521]

Never heard of that shooting style used, ever. Never seen that shooting style, ever. Never been to a class that advocated that shooting style, ever. Never had a competitive shooting instructor describe, demonstrate or advocate that style, ever.

The OP is a big advocate of "aimed point shooting," which involves just such a grip. From his website:

AIMED Point Shooting or P&S

The P&S grip is a natural four+ finger grip that works along with how your body works, and particularly so in high stress situations.

It is very easy to apply, and can be maintained with relative ease, as basically all you do is just grab onto your gun.

The gun is held in the natural, strong, and level shooting platform made up of your thumb, the web of your hand, and your index finger, with the ring and little fingers assisting in the grip. Their knuckles, where they meet the hand are not fixed. They can roll forward and add tenacity to the grip.

The middle finger can be flexed and extended independently, and it is used to pull the trigger. Its base also adds to the grip.

The index finger, when extended along the side of the gun, helps to naturally "lock up" the wrist and strengthen the grip, which improves recoil control.

And the thumb and index finger ARE NOT aloof from the gun. They are key elements to the strength of the grip.

You can squeeze the begeebers out of the gun using the natural pincer made up of your index finger and opposing thumb. And all the increase in pressure will do, is strengthen your grip on the gun.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Did anyone else catch that this video was uploaded to U tube by the OP???

 

[IndyGunworks]

5shot.... i hearby extend and offer for you to meet myself, and several others from out experiences ingo shooting community (those of my selection) to meet on some private property, or public range, and we can compare your so called improved shooting technique with those used by our resident competition shooters.... to keep it fair i will try and arrange for a few novices to be there that have not used either grip enough to cause a preference and you can teach them your way, and ill teach them mine, we can see tangible results with the targets, and have them tell us which they prefer and why.....

 

[JNG]

Putting aside the fact that the people who do this pistol thing for money (sponsored competitive shooters) and those whose lives depend on it (police & military) use sighted fire--and can do so unbelievably quickly with good technique and some practice--

and putting aside the fact that you are likely to have to fight for control of the gun in the "close quarters" scenarios mentioned in the video, and you are a lot less likely to win that fight holding on to the gun with three fingers than you are using a traditional grip--

I ask the OP, which is the greater risk?

the .01% chance that pressure on a 1911 slide stop will cause a freak jam?

-or-

the 100% chance that the three-finger grip advocated in the video will result in poor lateral control of the gun (i.e., the gun deviates when you pull the trigger), making it much harder to hit the target at any range?

 

[Joe Williams]

Someone using an improper (the original words I typed weren't very nice, but were much more accurate) method of shooting and managing to jam up his gun doesn't constitute a design flaw in any weapon. A design flaw in the user's gene's, perhaps, but the gun is working just fine.

 

[Joe Williams]

The OP is a big advocate of "aimed point shooting," which involves just such a grip. From his website:
snip.

That's nice. I'm a big advocate of aimed shooting, and point shooting, whichever is appropriate at the time. I'm not an advocate of weak shooting grips just to create a school of thought.

 

[smitty12b]

5shot.... i hearby extend and offer for you to meet myself, and several others from out experiences ingo shooting community (those of my selection) to meet on some private property, or public range, and we can compare your so called improved shooting technique with those used by our resident competition shooters.... to keep it fair i will try and arrange for a few novices to be there that have not used either grip enough to cause a preference and you can teach them your way, and ill teach them mine, we can see tangible results with the targets, and have them tell us which they prefer and why.....

I shoot the 1911 platform in competition and I would be happy to host this demo at Atlanta. I will set up either a IDPA or IPSC style stage for us to try each technique on.

 

[kevinj110]

This is the most rediculous thing ever. Also my goodness is that a long long long signature you have.,

 

[IndyBeerman]

I notice that you fail to show the design flaw in action.

Now, do you actually know the amount of force required by the index finger to actually move the slide stop with tension on the barrel link while the slide is cycling? Now what about the slide stop plunger exerting pressure on the stop to keep it in place and how it has to be exactly positioned it pop it out.

You factor those two things and the odds run right through the roof, I think winning the lottery would be better odds.

Now my final question, since the 1911 has only been around almost 100 years, you think that if this has occurred on more than one occasion there would be some kind of stink raised in the last 100 years.

We await.

 

[rhino]

This isn't the first time this same guy has come here with an almost identical topic. Maybe he makes the rounds of the various gun forums and forgets where he's done this?

I can't use my middle finger to press the trigger. It's always busy helping me communicate with other drivers when I'm on the road.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Go into his username and click all threads started... the first was a hello thread. all the others were trying to fill our head with this garbage.

I sincerely hopes he takes me up on my offer.

 

[melensdad]

i have seen plenty of malfunctions caused by the slide stop, but its from someone thinking its a drop in part, putting it in the gun, w/out shaping the portion that sits inside the magwell and causes the slide to lock back on an empty mag.... sometimes depending on the gun this needs to be shaped so the next round moving UP in the mag doesnt snag on it and force it up prematurly....

that said, thinking about the mechanics of a 1911 i dont even see how pressure on the slide stop would even cause a malfunction.

OK perhaps I should have clarified, in a properly working gun, I have never seen a slide stop induced failure. No argument that people can muck up their guns with crappy parts, not have them properly fitted. But my comment was specifically related to a properly working gun, when being fired, the slide stop has never caused my guns to ever fail.

But I do agree with you regarding your last point. I also don't se how pressure on the slide stop would cause a malfunction.

There are other gun designs that have the slide stop in a similar location, why not condemn the S&W 59xx and 45xx series guns too?

The OP is a big advocate of "aimed point shooting," which involves just such a grip. From his website:

AIMED Point Shooting or P&S

Yes, I did see that. Still doesn't change ANYTHING that I wrote.

ALSO, it seems pretty stupid to try to hang onto a gun that recoils like a 45acp without the use of one of your strongest fingers. But hey, I'm just applying logic to this thread.

 

[Aaron B.]

5shot.... i hearby extend and offer for you to meet myself, and several others from out experiences ingo shooting community (those of my selection) to meet on some private property, or public range, and we can compare your so called improved shooting technique with those used by our resident competition shooters.... to keep it fair i will try and arrange for a few novices to be there that have not used either grip enough to cause a preference and you can teach them your way, and ill teach them mine, we can see tangible results with the targets, and have them tell us which they prefer and why.....

Indy, FYI - that same offer has probably been made to Mr. Veit on every board he has polluted with his non-sensical posts. Don't expect to hear back for at least a few months, when he posts another video or tip he conviently found advocating his version of "point shooting".

Entertaining, if nothing else:
10-8 Forums: A fatal flaw of the 1911

 

[riverman67]

I have a hard enough time working on a proper grip let alone fooling with something like this , however if this demonstration ever happens i would like to attend.
I am going to bet that it doesn't