Is It Good For The Gun Cause To Bash Suppliers On The Open Internet?

[PRasko]

I had a range officer at midwest gun and range, while training a novice in the shooting sports how to use an ar15, have said rifle pointed down the line directly at my head.

When I confronted him he said, don't worry its not loaded.

So I put this to you.

Do I keep my mouth shut and let her go on her merry little way thinking that's OK until one day she slips and shoots someone because she was trained improperly?

Or do I bash that range every chance I get?

I choose the latter, and did so vigorously. Moot now cause they went out of business.

 

[Ingomike]

What the heck is a 2A vendor?

Any company that serves or supplies those exercising their 2A rights…

 

[Ingomike]

I had a range officer at midwest gun and range, while training a novice in the shooting sports how to use an ar15, have said rifle pointed down the line directly at my head.

When I confronted him he said, don't worry its not loaded.

So I put this to you.

Do I keep my mouth shut and let her go on her merry little way thinking that's OK until one day she slips and shoots someone because she was trained improperly?

Or do I bash that range every chance I get?

I choose the latter, and did so vigorously. Moot now cause they went out of business.

Neither. Was this a one time observation or did it happen multiple times? Did you speak to the manager? Owner? What did they say they would do in response?

If the company was indifferent then shout it out. If a one time deal I would give them a chance to fix it.

 

[Chalky]

Any company that serves or supplies those exercising their 2A rights…

So guess gas stations, fast food restaurants, and hardware stores too.... got it. lol... Sounds like the term gun violence. Something used to try to justify or "sell" a position.

 

[Nickbau5]

I will continue to call out what I believe to be frivolous complaints against the few options to shoot for those that have no place to shoot at home. We are trying to grow 2A supporters and frivolous complaints against ranges doesn’t further that.

But why do you feel the need to vehemently shill and white knight said companies? Just because a company claims they are "pro 2A" doesn't mean they are inherently entitled to my respect and I won't lick their boot just because they claim to agree with the same things. A company can claim they support 2A and then add the big "but" at the end, and then they lose respect because anything preceding a "but" is effectively nullified, ie "I support the 2nd amendment, but people shouldn't be able to own assault weapons" being a common one essentially saying they don't really support 2A.

 

[PRasko]

Neither. Was this a one time observation or did it happen multiple times? Did you speak to the manager? Owner? What did they say they would do in response?

If the company was indifferent then shout it out. If a one time deal I would give them a chance to fix it.

And you would have just as responsible for her accidentally shooting someone as the RO would have been.

How many others did he ”train” incorrectly?

How many people are out there that don’t follow the 4 basic rules because of what he’s done?

Yes, when I packed up and asked for my ID back, I told them why I was leaving after having just arrived. The response? A shoulder shrug and good bye.

You worry more about a companies image without contemplating the negative long term ramifications of said actions by the company. I choose to call them out and pray to help mitigate those issues.

 

[Ingomike]

And you would have just as responsible for her accidentally shooting someone as the RO would have been.

How many others did he ”train” incorrectly?

How many people are out there that don’t follow the 4 basic rules because of what he’s done?

Yes, when I packed up and asked for my ID back, I told them why I was leaving after having just arrived. The response? A shoulder shrug and good bye.

You worry more about a companies image without contemplating the negative long term ramifications of said actions by the company. I choose to call them out and pray to help mitigate those issues.

Actually I worry about having a place to shoot too, which few here seem to think a problem.

 

[KLB]

You could always get some land and shoot there.

 

[PRasko]

Actually I worry about having a place to shoot too, which few here seem to think a problem.

You worry more about having a range to shoot at then having people properly trained to not ND into a loved one.

Gotcha.

 

[Ingomike]

But why do you feel the need to vehemently shill and white knight said companies? Just because a company claims they are "pro 2A" doesn't mean they are inherently entitled to my respect and I won't lick their boot just because they claim to agree with the same things. A company can claim they support 2A and then add the big "but" at the end, and then they lose respect because anything preceding a "but" is effectively nullified, ie "I support the 2nd amendment, but people shouldn't be able to own assault weapons" being a common one essentially saying they don't really support 2A.

I think we should be treat those that supply or service those engaging in their 2A rights fairly. Is it too much to ask that we think about the vendors side without blindly always thinking every poster is a saint? I have never said we should not tell the bad things vendors do, just to think about it and try to exercise some restraint for little things.

 

[Ingomike]

You could always get some land and shoot there.

Don’t I wish!!!

 

[Ingomike]

You worry more about having a range to shoot at then having people properly trained to not ND into a loved one.

Gotcha.

The word too was in the sentence…

 

[jamil]

Damage to 2A vendors is one of the outcomes that could be bad for both parties, and even other 2A supporters.

That doesn’t damage “the cause”. Everyone should make sure their complaints are legit, cause or no cause. It sullies the reputation of any company if you complain about. You’ve already admitted as much that you’re not saying people should avoid legitimate complaints about a business.

But that subjective. Who makes complaints about businesses they think are not legitimate? And who gets to decide?

What about you? Would you complain about a gun related company that you think screwed you in some way? Or, because they’re a gun company reliant on “the cause”, you’d just take it?

 

[jamil]

What the heck is a 2A vendor?

Someone who sells 2A’s?

 

[jamil]

Something I have noticed here and on forums in general, there never seems to be any thought put to the fact that there are two sides to every story, and the forum usually only hears one side. Why is majority default to take the side of the poster?

Everyone that runs into policies at companies they do not like, and fail to win a challenge to them, feels disrespected anymore. Are there really that many bad employees at gun stores? Particularly places like SPB or Midwest Guns, or Top guns? Those employees are always disrespectful?

Indy area only has a handful of indoor ranges for the near 2 million that live in the area. It just seems like way too often we have posts criticizing these companies for clearly written policies and then everyone piles on.

I will continue to call out what I believe to be frivolous complaints against the few options to shoot for those that have no place to shoot at home. We are trying to grow 2A supporters and frivolous complaints against ranges doesn’t further that.

They’re frivolous to you. Are they objectively frivolous? I wasn’t involved in those discussions. So I have no opinion to share about that.

Is there a bias you have to gun related companies that raise your threshold above what is objectively frivolous? Or are you calibrated to reality? Am I calibrated to reality? Is the complainant? Look at how many opinions are posted? I think if they all line up in one direction, my first suspicion for why wouldn’t be that they just agree with the first person to say it.

 

[jamil]

I had a range officer at midwest gun and range, while training a novice in the shooting sports how to use an ar15, have said rifle pointed down the line directly at my head.

When I confronted him he said, don't worry its not loaded.

So I put this to you.

Do I keep my mouth shut and let her go on her merry little way thinking that's OK until one day she slips and shoots someone because she was trained improperly?

Or do I bash that range every chance I get?

I choose the latter, and did so vigorously. Moot now cause they went out of business.

There’s probably an in-between. Does the range deserve perpetual scorn? Is there a way they could redeem themselves?

 

[PRasko]

The word too was in the sentence…

-edit- I missed that. Sorry.

What does more damage to our sports image?

An ND due to misinformation or bad training that makes headlines?

Or an online review.

You somehow think that online reviews are going to be used in some headline against the industry. That if people are bad mouthing a company that itll be used against our sport.

In reality, that company will hopefully do the right thing after seeing those reviews. Step up and correct their ways, but if they don’t, they deserve every ounce of bad reviews they receive.

 

[PRasko]

There’s probably an in-between. Does the range deserve perpetual scorn? Is there a way they could redeem themselves?

They closed the location permanently. If thats any indicator.

And with that said.

Midwest in mishiwaka, while a little expensive, is an amazing place. Never had a bad experience there.

 

[jamil]

What does more damage to our sports image?

An ND due to misinformation or bad training that makes headlines?

Or an online review.

You somehow think that online reviews are going to be used in some headline against the industry. That if people are bad mouthing a company that itll be used against our sport.

In reality, that company will hopefully do the right thing after seeing those reviews. Step up and correct their ways, but if they don’t, they deserve every ounce of bad reviews they receive.

I think if a range does not have safe practices it's going to do a lot more damage to "the cause" than complaining about them. Even if one range goes out of business because no one feels safe there, that's less damage than an "accident" being reported in the news.

 

[PRasko]

I get what ingomike is prying at, and I understand his thinking on the subject, but its inflated imo.

Online reviews aren’t going to shut down a business. They aren’t being used against our sport in some anti 2a news way.

If online reviews and bashing companies put them out of business cheaperthandirt would have died off long ago, but that hell hole is going to survive the nuclear apocalypse right next to the cock roaches.