Is a properly holstered handgun considered "safe"?

[BehindBlueI's]

No, but certainly a element of repressed daddy issues present.



Not as definitive as "All guns are always loaded".

If you have warning signs, they must be enormous. If you have rules, they must be definitive. Watering down Rule #1 to prevent the whining and rationalizations to break it do a disservice to the gun culture.

Help me understand what's watered down in the 4 I listed, and if they were followed would be any less safe than yours.

1) Don't point guns at things you aren't willing to destroy...
2) Know your target and backdrop...
3) Don't put your finger on the trigger until ready to fire...
4) Apply all rules to any firearm mechanically able to fire, regardless of loaded/unloaded status...

Which one isn't "definitive" enough?

BTW, what's the "issue" involved in continually demeaning those who disagree with you instead of just addressing the arguments posed?

 

[Woobie]

Oh, you're good. In fact, you're too good at that.

Lol, my mom is from Kentucky. She talks like a Hoosier until she gets on the phone with her sister, then I need an interpreter.

 

[dieselrealtor]

"Over 93% of participants of a recent poll in a Midwestern United States forum indicates that a properly holstered firearm is indeed safe"

print that.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Which one isn't "definitive" enough?

#4.

BTW, what's the "issue" involved in continually demeaning those who disagree with you instead of just addressing the arguments posed?

Sarcasm. It's a new thing that just came out.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

#4.



Sarcasm. It's a new thing that just came out.

Nah. It's more than just sarcasm when you continually demean people.

4) Apply all rules to any firearm mechanically able to fire, regardless of loaded/unloaded status...

What's not definitive enough? You think a firearm that's not mechanically capable of being fired, say disassembled, needs to be treated the same?

 

[BugI02]

I almost didn't submit this, because I know it won't change anything... once someones head starts running and they start spouting off about how people disagreeing with them are incompetent and compare it to jumping off of a building, well, there's not really anything you can say to change their outlook. But here you go.

You're taking this the wrong way. Not a single person is advocating going around and pointing your weapon at everyone all the time or waving your gun around. Nobody is advocating negligent handling of a firearm, we are simply stating that those 4 rules cannot be followed 100% of the time. We are stating that there is a difference between "unsafe" and "safe" ways of carrying and that you can break those rules while being completely safe. For example, while you may think appendix carry is "unsafe" because it violates the 4 rules, we are simply saying that it is no different than strong side carry, as long as your gear is fit for the job it is just as safe. It's not the "rules" that make the handling of a firearm safe. It is how the person handles the firearm, which can change between each scenario and training exercise. Even during drills you can break those rules as long as you have double or even triple checked to make sure that the firearm is completely clear and that there is no way for ammunition to be put into that weapon.

The safety of yourself and others relies on you. A firearm is simply a tool and when it's completely clear, it's nothing more than a paperweight. Those people you hear about being "shot with an unloaded gun"... they obviously weren't shot with an unloaded gun. Someone didn't clear that weapon... you can't say that people are shot with an unloaded gun, because it's physically impossible. They might say it's unloaded to save their ass in a legal battle, but we as gun owners all know better. The breaking of the rules does not mean negligence. You simply have to stop being ignorant and take the time to understand the difference.

Actual training will break these rules. There's just no possible way to do real life situation training than to break these rules, which is why it is imperative that the instructor and the students take the time to make sure that everything is right.

By the way, you spelled "competence" wrong and "unpossible" is not a word. (I just wanted to point that out because I, personally, thought it was hilarious... and yes, I know I'm an ass)

Spelled it correct in the following sentence, so what do you think, -5?

Urban Dictionary: Unpossible

 

[Kirk Freeman]

t's more than just sarcasm when you continually demean people.

Daaaaddddddyyy, people may die in gun accidents in gun shops, but Freeman is being a big meanie! INGO=safe space.

What's not definitive enough? You think a firearm that's not mechanically capable of being fired, say disassembled, needs to be treated the same?

Well, to me, there is no conclusion. And yes I was taught that gun handling is habituation. Red/blue/orange/gray gun is to be treated as a firearm.

 

[ckcollins2003]

Spelled it correct in the following sentence, so what do you think, -5?

Urban Dictionary: Unpossible

Meh, yeah, -5... A- is a pretty good grade.

Oh, we're going by Urban Dictionary now... well then, shall we all get together for a good whip and nae nae? Does your chain hang low? Does it hang down to the flo?

 

[MohawkSlim]

Nah. It's more than just sarcasm when you continually demean people.

This is a pretty common tactic though we usually see it with those who support Hillary or Bernie.

People do this when they have no real answers and argue from a weak position. They attempt to discredit others instead of using a strong position of logic.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Daaaaddddddyyy, people may die in gun accidents in gun shops, but Freeman is being a big meanie!

Nah. It's more than just sarcasm when you continually demean people.

4) Apply all rules to any firearm mechanically able to fire, regardless of loaded/unloaded status...

What's not definitive enough? You think a firearm that's not mechanically capable of being fired, say disassembled, needs to be treated the same?

Nice deflection. Try again?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Nice deflection. Try again?

Maybe in another language?

Aaaallllllaaaaabbbbb, he's being a big meanie!

 

[BugI02]

If we were going to send that script to re-write I think I would go with:

1. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. Personally clearing a weapon does not change expected behavior.

2. Do not point a firearm at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot.

3. Finger off the trigger unless sights are on target and ready to fire.

4. Know your target and consider what is beyond it (you might miss)

Still not that different from the classic formulation.

 

[BugI02]

Maybe in another language?

Aaaallllllaaaaabbbbb, he's being a big meanie!

Kirk, have a snickers

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh, nice, stealth edit for the win after getting called out for not addressing the question.

Well, to me, there is no conclusion. And yes I was taught that gun handling is habituation. Red/blue/orange/gray gun is to be treated as a firearm.

Have you never looked down a barrel to inspect it? If I were to wish to purchase a bolt action rifle and wanted to check the rifling and bore, how would you suggest I do this?

If you need to pretend all gun shaped objects are guns in order to be safe, then by all means continue to do so. There ARE, however, safety protocols that exist and if followed do not allow the blue gun/real gun switcheroo to take place. Similarly, if you need to pretend all guns are loaded in order to be safe, then by all means continue to do so.

 

[Woobie]

If we were going to send that script to re-write I think I would go with:

1. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. Personally clearing a weapon does not change expected behavior.

2. Do not point a firearm at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot.

3. Finger off the trigger unless sights are on target and ready to fire.

4. Know your target and consider what is beyond it (you might miss)

Still not that different from the classic formulation.

Do you intend to put holes in your floor or walls? Do you dry fire?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If we were going to send that script to re-write I think I would go with:

1. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. Personally clearing a weapon does not change expected behavior.

2. Do not point a firearm at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot.

3. Finger off the trigger unless sights are on target and ready to fire.

4. Know your target and consider what is beyond it (you might miss)

Still not that different from the classic formulation.

I'm good with that too.

**Edited because Woobie made sense**

Substitution for #2 to incorporate dry fire: Do not point a firearm at anyone or anything you are not willing to shoot.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Do you intend to put holes in your floor or walls? Do you dry fire?

I guess #2 would more properly read "are willing to" instead of "intend to" for me. (of course, right after I said I'm good with them)

I am prepared for the gun to discharge when I dry fire. I aim at an interior wall with a stone wall behind it or I aim at a stack of books in front of my gun safe. I don't intend to destroy the books or the wall, but I am willing to destroy them. I would not dry fire at a window, for example.

 

[BugI02]

Oh, nice, stealth edit for the win after getting called out for not addressing the question.



Have you never looked down a barrel to inspect it? If I were to wish to purchase a bolt action rifle and wanted to check the rifling and bore, how would you suggest I do this?

If you need to pretend all gun shaped objects are guns in order to be safe, then by all means continue to do so. There ARE, however, safety protocols that exist and if followed do not allow the blue gun/real gun switcheroo to take place. Similarly, if you need to pretend all guns are loaded in order to be safe, then by all means continue to do so.

On virtually all of mine I remove the bolt entirely and look down the barrel from the breech. Bore light or better yet white piece of paper (to diffuse the light) over the muzzle, illuminated by any handy source (overhead light at gun show, flashlight etc). You can inspect the muzzle area for erosion without looking directly down it and the rest you can see just fine from the breech

 

[MohawkSlim]

What happened to all the "your posts don't belong in this thread" guys?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

On virtually all of mine I remove the bolt entirely and look down the barrel from the breech. Bore light or better yet white piece of paper (to diffuse the light) over the muzzle, illuminated by any handy source (overhead light at gun show, flashlight etc). You can inspect the muzzle area for erosion without looking directly down it and the rest you can see just fine from the breech

I do with my own rifles, but at gun stores I generally use a light up chamber flag.

But, point taken. How about a lever action.