Is 40S&W that unwanted?

[lovemachine]

I was laughing when I posted it

 

[wtfd661]

I just bought my first .40 (a Glock 27), after putting a hundred rounds through it the other day I didn't feel the recoil was bad at all.

 

[edwea]

I am trading some 9mm for some .40 next week round for round and I couldn't be happier. Also (admittedly i haven't been shooting as long as many people here) I have never seen a handgun that was "worn out" from shooting. Does that really ever happen? Seems like a manufacturer defect instead of blaming caliber?

 

[churchmouse]

I am trading some 9mm for some .40 next week round for round and I couldn't be happier. Also (admittedly i haven't been shooting as long as many people here) I have never seen a handgun that was "worn out" from shooting. Does that really ever happen? Seems like a manufacturer defect instead of blaming caliber?

I have seen a few worn out warriors. Ignition controls will wear. Recoil springs will get weak.

 

[TopDog]

Yeah the sentiment that there is nothing wrong with the .40 yet nothing really appealing is right on target as far as I am concerned. I have a Glock 22 (my only .40) with barrels for .40, 9mm and .357 sig. Will keep that gun as I can shoot 3 calibers from one gun - reliably without changing anything other than barrels and mags.

But the .40 for the most part has it's greatest appeal among thugs. Serious shooters can not see a big advantage to the round, especially factoring in the snappy recoil (however slight).

 

[edwea]

I have seen a few worn out warriors. Ignition controls will wear. Recoil springs will get weak.

Just out of curiosity, how many rounds down the pipe?

 

[VERT]

Yeah the sentiment that there is nothing wrong with the .40 yet nothing really appealing is right on target as far as I am concerned. I have a Glock 22 (my only .40) with barrels for .40, 9mm and .357 sig. Will keep that gun as I can shoot 3 calibers from one gun - reliably without changing anything other than barrels and mags.

But the .40 for the most part has it's greatest appeal among thugs. Serious shooters can not see a big advantage to the round, especially factoring in the snappy recoil (however slight).

Don't know if I would go that far. 40 was the law enforcement cartridge for many years. Couple of things played into that decision. Now that the performance/technology differences has shrunk between service cartridges and the expiration of the Clinton AWB the 40 is simply falling out of favor with consumers. It is still #3 in popularity and is a fine service cartridge.

 

[VERT]

Just out of curiosity, how many rounds down the pipe?

Around 5000ish I noticed my 1911 and Glock 23 getting a little tired in the recoil spring department. Gun still worked fine but not as much umph.

 

[kaveman]

The big changes in the handgun world since the introduction of the .40s&w are threefold,........

Pistols have gotten much smaller.

Pistols have gotten much plasticier(polymerier??), ie lighter.

The AWB went away and you're not choosing between 10rds of 9 or 10rds of 10.

None of those things favored the .40. I suppose you can add in the technological advance of the 9mm as a fourth change. I personally would not prefer a .40 in a subcompact nor would I prefer a .40 in a poly pistol, although I do have a bunch of those. I would just rather have them in 9mm. The place where the .40 really shines is in the full size duty pistol of at least alloy frame if not steel. It's a real sweetheart in a rotary locking pistol,......even with poly frame.

I have seen a totally destroyed alloy frame .40s&w. Pictures were posted over on the s&w forum. All anyone could imagine is that it was fired excessively with worn out(or incorrect)recoil springs. It was battered to hell and back and even the unlocking cams were destroyed. Still functioned tho. Nobody else had ever seen that sort of damage in a Smith.

 

[churchmouse]

Just out of curiosity, how many rounds down the pipe?

As vert said, if you are paying attention it can be as early as 6K and may not show until 7K.
I had a P-12 Para that went north of 10K before it wore out the components I mentioned. It was an early Para when they were still pretty good guns.

 

[Que]

Some people talk about things they do not understand and some people are simply poor communicators. (I'm referring to the people you are hearing, not you)

I didn't want to quote your entire post, although it was all very good. Just for those of us with less knowledge... Is this "improvement" to 9mm seen in the everyday reloading projectiles that we use or is it specifically referring to Critical Defense, Core Bond, HST and other defense ammo? Also, do you believe the industry can or will someday make similar improvements to the .40 round?

 

[phylodog]

I didn't want to quote your entire post, although it was all very good. Just for those of us with less knowledge... Is this "improvement" to 9mm seen in the everyday reloading projectiles that we use or is it specifically referring to Critical Defense, Core Bond, HST and other defense ammo? Also, do you believe the industry can or will someday make similar improvements to the .40 round?

I have only tested a small portion of the available bullets but I was impressed with the Hornady Critical Duty 135gr, Federal 147gr HST and the Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P.

The .40 rounds perform very well also, I believe we are approaching the point where handgun rounds aren't capable of being improved upon much more unless the manufacturers make dramatic changes to the materials used (something other than lead & copper). I don't know that this is even possible but handgun rounds in 9, 40 & 45 are meeting the testing criteria developed by the FBI very well. So much so that velocity has basically been all but ignored when evaluating bullet performance now as bullets are designed to perform to a certain level at a pretty narrow velocity range and pushing them faster than intended does not improve things. Penetration, expansion and weight retention are all close to being exactly what the FBI says they need to be for viable performance. It's not that the manufacturers are working to improve the 9mm while ignoring the .40, the .40 has been a good performer for many years and the 9mm has been improved upon to close the performance gap a bit. The .40 has been improved upon as well but the difference in those improvements is not as dramatic as it has been in the 9mm.

 

[TopDog]

Don't know if I would go that far. 40 was the law enforcement cartridge for many years. Couple of things played into that decision. Now that the performance/technology differences has shrunk between service cartridges and the expiration of the Clinton AWB the 40 is simply falling out of favor with consumers. It is still #3 in popularity and is a fine service cartridge.

I agree it is perfectly suitable round for self defense. But as you said it has fallen out of favor. Wonder if any of those INGOers that work in an LGS would like to chime in on how many .40 they sell compared to 9mm.

 

[churchmouse]

I agree it is perfectly suitable round for self defense. But as you said it has fallen out of favor. Wonder if any of those INGOers that work in an LGS would like to chime in on how many .40 they sell compared to 9mm.

They have. Up thread.

It is a fad thing.

Blue is cool right now.

Hang around and green will be the new hot thing.......

 

[TopDog]

They have. Up thread.

It is a fad thing.

Blue is cool right now.

Hang around and green will be the new hot thing.......

I missed it skimming the thread. I thought Glock was making Gray the next cool thing,

 

[churchmouse]

I missed it skimming the thread. I thought Glock was making Gray the next cool thing,

Not so much so far.

Silk purse on an ugly dog.

 

[AngryRooster]

Didn't we do this already?

 

[Que]

I have only tested a small portion of the available bullets but I was impressed with the Hornady Critical Duty 135gr, Federal 147gr HST and the Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P.

The .40 rounds perform very well also, I believe we are approaching the point where handgun rounds aren't capable of being improved upon much more unless the manufacturers make dramatic changes to the materials used (something other than lead & copper). I don't know that this is even possible but handgun rounds in 9, 40 & 45 are meeting the testing criteria developed by the FBI very well. So much so that velocity has basically been all but ignored when evaluating bullet performance now as bullets are designed to perform to a certain level at a pretty narrow velocity range and pushing them faster than intended does not improve things. Penetration, expansion and weight retention are all close to being exactly what the FBI says they need to be for viable performance. It's not that the manufacturers are working to improve the 9mm while ignoring the .40, the .40 has been a good performer for many years and the 9mm has been improved upon to close the performance gap a bit. The .40 has been improved upon as well but the difference in those improvements is not as dramatic as it has been in the 9mm.

Thanks, Phylo. Why does the FBI set the testing standard and not the manufacturers or even the military? It always seems to be big news when the FBI "gives up .40 and goes for 9mm" or something like that.

 

[maxmayhem]

40 is a better round than 9mm WHEN it hits its target...that being said...the difference between those two rounds gives a sleight advantage to the 40 ....the disadvantage with the round for me is the recoil which because of the velocity is harder to manage than both 45 and 9mm....the other factor, arguably, is cost and availability...when a small pistol will hold six or seven 40 cal bullets you can get 8-9 of your 9mm bullets....also,study and observe the accuracy of trained folks in life or death gun fights and accuracy goes waay down when under duress when fight or flight reflexes kick in....this lends itself to carrying more of the 9mm in my opinion...i am confident in having 18 rounds in my glock 17 more so than having a smaller amount of rounds available in a marginally better and more destructive caliber...9mm in hornady critical defense is almost as good as 40 cal ..i only buy two fighting rounds 9mm and 5.56/223...i mentioned the cost factor above but its easier to get the women/girls in my family to shoot with 9mm...anything else they just dont like....i go to the range all the time and watch women pretend to be happy shooting the husbands 12 gauge as it rips and rocks their small frames and bruises their shoulders....for these reasons i only use 9mm,though 40 is a better round in my opinion, because it does the job...it may not do the job the first time i fire but i know i will always have two to three more chances than i would with 40 or 45

 

[maxmayhem]

i also got rid of 380 because of cost to practice and it just didnt seem that powerful to me...so 9mm is my middle ground....i dont really find it enjoyable shooting 40 and thats another factor when practicing....and Vanilla carried a nine for the chumps on the wall