INGO member in handcuffs

[Johnny C]

Whew!, I am about halfway through this thread.
Great stuff guys!
KODOS!

Maybe someone covered this in a later post, but it is pretty obvious to me that the PRESS wont cover LAWFUL FIREARMS CARRY by citizens, they dont want to DECREASE the fear of firearms by the sheeple, they only want to INCREASE it.

Anyhow, back to reading!

 

[E5RANGER375]

It is my job to fish, sorry I cant just assume that every person I stop is a law abiding citizen.

I have not, and will never manufacture PC. It's either there or it's not.

I know that the 4A is a right, but stopping a car for a valid violation, and asking questions on that stop, is not harassment and does not violate that right.

its ok because I suspect every cop I come across is a bad cop until you give me reason to believe otherwise. with your post on here and all the abuses by cops we see on the news and here on INGO can you blame me? all your doing is furthering the facts that we already knew. thats why I dont talk to cops. give me a ticket or let me go. either way Im not saying a damn thing to you. in other words, this fish isnt nibbling on what your selling on your hook. Im fully aware that most cops are looking to use anything against anyone to create a case, but you just gave the proof in writing. first time ive seen it actualy admitted on here. at least your honest about your oppression of citizens. and YES you do need to assume that EVERY citizen is an innocent law abiding citizen until you can PROVE otherwise because THAT IS OUR RIGHT!!!! a burn out license plate light is not that proof that they are bad. I think we need to start hosting INGO "know your rights" siminars, where we get afew lawyers off here together and educate the general public to stop talking to all police. it would be interesting to see what new tactics the police come up with to get around that. probly just more lying like others and produce their own PC.

 

[youngda9]

How did this thread get so epic...I don't have time to read all this. WOW.

 

[E5RANGER375]

How did this thread get so epic...I don't have time to read all this. WOW.

because we have a serious problem in this country and people are fed up with it and want a change now. if we can get rid of powerful politicians we dont like then you can bet your bippy that we can get rid of bad police and their failed and illegal personal agendas against us. They are waking a sleeping giant.

 

[ATM]

...They are waking a sleeping giant.

Somebody woke up China?

 

[lovemachine]

To be fair, not ALL cops are like that. I know some that are really good guys.

its ok because I suspect every cop I come across is a bad cop until you give me reason to believe otherwise. with your post on here and all the abuses by cops we see on the news and here on INGO can you blame me? all your doing is furthering the facts that we already knew. thats why I dont talk to cops. give me a ticket or let me go. either way Im not saying a damn thing to you. in other words, this fish isnt nibbling on what your selling on your hook. Im fully aware that most cops are looking to use anything against anyone to create a case, but you just gave the proof in writing. first time ive seen it actualy admitted on here. at least your honest about your oppression of citizens. and YES you do need to assume that EVERY citizen is an innocent law abiding citizen until you can PROVE otherwise because THAT IS OUR RIGHT!!!! a burn out license plate light is not that proof that they are bad. I think we need to start hosting INGO "know your rights" siminars, where we get afew lawyers off here together and educate the general public to stop talking to all police. it would be interesting to see what new tactics the police come up with to get around that. probly just more lying like others and produce their own PC.

 

[E5RANGER375]

To be fair, not ALL cops are like that. I know some that are really good guys.

as do I, and have friends and family that are federal and local police. but Im not taking the chance with a cop I dont know. even though Im a law abiding citizen (or try to be as long as it doesnt jeapordize my safety) I am not volunteering anything that might set myself up.
even if you murdered someone and their are witnesses you are still an idiot if you confess. get my point?

 

[lovemachine]

as do I, and have friends and family that are federal and local police. but Im not taking the chance with a cop I dont know. even though Im a law abiding citizen (or try to be as long as it doesnt jeapordize my safety) I am not volunteering anything that might set myself up.
even if you murdered someone and their are witnesses you are still an idiot if you confess. get my point?

Wouldn't you be more of an idiot if you murdered somebody? Especially if there was someone watching?

Yep, a RANGER for ya, they stink and don't think right. Not too mention never washing their hands after making doody

 

[E5RANGER375]

Wouldn't you be more of an idiot if you murdered somebody? Especially if there was someone watching?

Yep, a RANGER for ya, they stink and don't think right. Not too mention never washing their hands after making doody

touche

 

[03mustgt]

its ok because I suspect every cop I come across is a bad cop until you give me reason to believe otherwise. with your post on here and all the abuses by cops we see on the news and here on INGO can you blame me? all your doing is furthering the facts that we already knew. thats why I dont talk to cops. give me a ticket or let me go. either way Im not saying a damn thing to you. in other words, this fish isnt nibbling on what your selling on your hook. Im fully aware that most cops are looking to use anything against anyone to create a case, but you just gave the proof in writing. first time ive seen it actualy admitted on here. at least your honest about your oppression of citizens. and YES you do need to assume that EVERY citizen is an innocent law abiding citizen until you can PROVE otherwise because THAT IS OUR RIGHT!!!! a burn out license plate light is not that proof that they are bad. I think we need to start hosting INGO "know your rights" siminars, where we get afew lawyers off here together and educate the general public to stop talking to all police. it would be interesting to see what new tactics the police come up with to get around that. probly just more lying like others and produce their own PC.

I think that you misunderstand, I am not out to screw every person I meet, but I do have a job to do. When I stop someone on traffic stop, there are many things that I think about. What I was saying is that just because I stop you for a license plate light, I am not going to ignore anyother criminal activity I see. Also, I dont have the luxury to assume everyone is a law abiding citizen, my number one priority is to go home at the end of the night. Should i just assume the guy making furtive movements is reaching for his license and registration? or maybe he is reaching for his .357 snubbie he has hidden?

E5RANGER375, from every thread I have seen you post in regarding LEO it is clear to me that you are a not a huge fan of LEO's. Thats fine with me, you are entitled to your opinnions. But please dont assume that you can judge what kind of person or LEO I am based on a few internet posts.

 

[USMC_0311]

I think that you misunderstand, I am not out to screw every person I meet, but I do have a job to do. When I stop someone on traffic stop, there are many things that I think about. What I was saying is that just because I stop you for a license plate light, I am not going to ignore anyother criminal activity I see. Also, I dont have the luxury to assume everyone is a law abiding citizen, my number one priority is to go home at the end of the night. Should i just assume the guy making furtive movements is reaching for his license and registration? or maybe he is reaching for his .357 snubbie he has hidden?

Sounds like you are a little bitter, too many speeding tickets or something? Oppression of citizens? Wtf are you talking about? Please explain to me how I oppress citizens?

No its not a luxury but your duty...IMO

What are furtive movements?

 

[03mustgt]

No its not a luxury but your duty...IMO

What are furtive movements?

I think you are confusing issues, or maybe I wasnt clear about what I was trying to say. I do not show up to every call thinking everyone is a criminal and wanting to arrest everyone. If I see something that I think is out of the ordinary I will ask someone questions about it. When I say I dont assume everyone is a law abiding citizen I am mainly referring to my tactics and how to protect myself. Meaning that it is better for me to assume that the guy I stopped on a traffic stop is trying to find a way to kill me, than to assume he is your average joe. Once I talk to them then I can descalate etc.

 

[bigus_D]

What are furtive movements?

fur·tive/ˈfərtiv/Adjective
1. Attempting to avoid notice or attention, typically because of guilt or a belief that discovery would lead to trouble; secretive.

 

[USMC_0311]

fur·tive/ˈfərtiv/Adjective
1. Attempting to avoid notice or attention, typically because of guilt or a belief that discovery would lead to trouble; secretive.

I see now..thanks

 

[USMC_0311]

I think you are confusing issues, or maybe I wasnt clear about what I was trying to say. I do not show up to every call thinking everyone is a criminal and wanting to arrest everyone. If I see something that I think is out of the ordinary I will ask someone questions about it. When I say I dont assume everyone is a law abiding citizen I am mainly referring to my tactics and how to protect myself. Meaning that it is better for me to assume that the guy I stopped on a traffic stop is trying to find a way to kill me, than to assume he is your average joe. Once I talk to them then I can descalate etc.

.

I am not confused. I understand you think it is better for you to assume that the guy you stopped on a traffic stop is trying to find a way to kill you, than to assume he is your average joe. This is the same as showing up to every call thinking everyone is a criminal.

You think it safe. Your goal is to go home at night.

I think your job is to protect and serve. If you have other goals that are placed higher then maybe you should consider another "safer" line of work.

 

[Hawkeye]

So, is this thread going to make 100 pages?

 

[jeremy]

I think you are confusing issues, or maybe I wasnt clear about what I was trying to say. I do not show up to every call thinking everyone is a criminal and wanting to arrest everyone. If I see something that I think is out of the ordinary I will ask someone questions about it. When I say I dont assume everyone is a law abiding citizen I am mainly referring to my tactics and how to protect myself. Meaning that it is better for me to assume that the guy I stopped on a traffic stop is trying to find a way to kill me, than to assume he is your average joe. Once I talk to them then I can descalate etc.

I have sat this out till now...

If I had any intentions of causing you harm do you honestly think I would wait until you had walked up to the door of my vehicle?! That is just a simpleton view of how to do harm to another person. If, if I was looking to do harm to someone I would choose to do it at a time that gives me an advantage tactically. Like when the LEO pulls in behind my vehicle to complete the stop, or when the individual is stepping out of their vehicle to walk up to mine, or better yet how about waiting the additional 30 seconds for them to collect the data they need and are walking back to their vehicle…

Maybe I am just too much of a cynic…

 

[Compatriot G]

I think you are confusing issues, or maybe I wasnt clear about what I was trying to say. I do not show up to every call thinking everyone is a criminal and wanting to arrest everyone. If I see something that I think is out of the ordinary I will ask someone questions about it. When I say I dont assume everyone is a law abiding citizen I am mainly referring to my tactics and how to protect myself. Meaning that it is better for me to assume that the guy I stopped on a traffic stop is trying to find a way to kill me, than to assume he is your average joe. Once I talk to them then I can descalate etc.

I have a question. How many traffic stops have you made where the individual you stopped tried to kill you or cause you physical harm in some manner? I ask because I always hear that traffic stops are dangerous and you never know what may happen.

Getting back to the original topic, what exactly caused the officer in question to believe his safety was compromised when ATFC politely refused to put on his thumb safety? Was it just the presence of an openly carried firearm? Was it the officer's ignorance about single-action semi autos? Or was it because ATFC refused to comply with the officer's request?

Why is it that if I have an encounter with law enforcement, I may have to surrender my firearm and allow the LEO to run my gun to see if it is "stolen"? What about my safety? Why is it considered unsafe for me to posses a firearm around an LEO, but it is perfectly acceptable for the officer to remain armed in my presence? I don't know if the LEO is a good cop or a bad cop. I don't know if the officer understands and practices good gun safety. I don't know if the officer understands the safe operation of my firearm compared to his.

Let me illustrate what I'm saying. Several years ago, I was pulled over by an ISP trooper. In the process of getting out my driver's license, he saw the pink piece of paper. He asked if I had a firearm in the vehicle. I stated I did. He asked if he could see it. I said he could. I was going to make my pistol safe before I handed it to the officer. However, I noticed he was standing by my car with his hand on his pistol, ready to draw on me. At that point, I just removed my Glock 23 and handed it to him. He went back to his car. He came back to mine a few minutes later and asked if there was a round in the chamber!! I stated there was. At this point I became very concerned for my safety. My thought was what if he accidentally shoots and kills himself while unloading my weapon. No judge or jury in the world would believe that I was innocent.

You stated you have to assume everybody is trying to hurt you until they prove otherwise. I have to now assume all cops are ignorant of our gun laws and the safe and proper handling of a firearm until they prove otherwise.

 

[jeremy]

I think if IMPD is/were truly interested in Officer Safety, they should really start a Fitness Program...

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I have sat this out till now...

If I had any intentions of causing you harm do you honestly think I would wait until you had walked up to the door of my vehicle?! That is just a simpleton view of how to do harm to another person. If, if I was looking to do harm to someone I would choose to do it at a time that gives me an advantage tactically. Like when the LEO pulls in behind my vehicle to complete the stop, or when the individual is stepping out of their vehicle to walk up to mine, or better yet how about waiting the additional 30 seconds for them to collect the data they need and are walking back to their vehicle…

Maybe I am just too much of a cynic…

I don't see a problem with them preparing for the worst.
Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
While under very different conditions I'm sure you practiced that when you were overseas didn't you? I would be surprised if you didn't have that mindset now. I know lots of people that do. Myself included to some degree at least.

Now I do have a problem with them taking it too far and let's say disarming everyone on a stop just because they are carrying. And running the serial numbers. Or removing them from the car and handcuffing them.