Infidel

[SaintsNSinners]

I reject all organized religion.. So I am a gentle gentile infidel kafir?

 

[Kagnew]

It's generally considered quite derogatory, though, and has little to do with the rest of this discussion.

My point was the use of the word "kafir" (which, yes, is considered derogatory enough to cause you to get your lunch handed to you in many parts of the "dark continent"). Terribly sorry to have interrupted.

 

[iChokePeople]

My point was the use of the word "kafir" (which, yes, is considered derogatory enough to cause you to get your lunch handed to you in many parts of the "darker continent"). Terribly sorry to have interrupted.

Sorry, I see why you would read my comment that way, but that wasn't my meaning -- just phrased badly. Your definition is correct and used, just probably not the usage intended by those who buy the patches and proudly proclaim their kafir status.

 

[Kagnew]

Sorry, I see why you would read my comment that way, but that wasn't my meaning -- just phrased badly. Your definition is correct and used, just probably not the usage intended by those who buy the patches and proudly proclaim their kafir status.

No problem, buddy. I had just never heard kafir equated with infidel. I guess I would qualify as an "infidel" (since I did officially poo-poo Islam many, many years ago when I was stationed in Eritrea), but I ain't no "kafir" (nor wog).

 

[findingZzero]

I reject all organized religion.. So I am a gentle gentile infidel kafir?

You are a GGIK and a rejectionista.

 

[STEEL CORE]

I am a "Christian" by GOD, makes me an Infidel so be it!

 

[Bapak2ja]

Actually, I suspect NONE of you fits the more correct definition of "kafir". It's thrown around a lot lately, but to really be considered a 'kafir' by an educated Muslim, you have to have been presented Islam in an acceptable manner, one in which you had ample opportunity to accept it, and rejected it. To a more educated Muslim, Christians are generally not considered 'kafir', but a term that translates to "people of the book" (or "people of the scripture"). But that kind of takes the fun out of all of the shirts and hats that are so popular now.

Excellent explanation. You know your stuff!

 

[Eric05]

I dont know farsi, nor care what it translates too. But I know everyone speaks 5.56

 

[Bapak2ja]

I'm not familiar with either the language or religion enough to know what subtleties might be there with the term gentile, but with my understanding of it, non-Jewish covers it. "Kafir" isn't quite so simple, though. It has requirements, for those who really understand it and use it correctly. Not just "doesn't accept Islam/isn't a Muslim". So similar, but not exactly the same, as I understand the term "gentile".

Gentile comes from the Hebrew word goy.

גּוֹי goy (156c); from the same as 1458; nation, people:—every nation(2), Gentiles(1), Goiim(1), Harosheth-hagoyim*(3), herds(1), nation(120), nations(425), people(4).

Thomas, R. L. (1998). New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : Updated edition. Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Hebrew Dictionary #1471

It carries a very negative connotation based on the racial identity (not physically descended from Abraham) and on personal choice (choosing not to be circumcised and become a Jewish proselyte).

Of course, it is much involved than this simple explanation, but I thought this would help the discussion.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Yes, Christians are NOT infidels like many think.

Unless we have had a chance to consider the teachings of Islam and rejected them. Then we are true Kafirs.

 

[Bapak2ja]

BTW, how did this discussion of religion get past the mods? Did they fall asleep?

 

[CathyInBlue]

Is there a tee shirt out there with the words "Proud Infidel" in Arabic? That would rank right up there with "Looking for a Japanese Girlfriend" in Japanese.

Actually, I too am a person of the book. I just have a slightly different type of book.

 

[iChokePeople]

Is there a tee shirt out there with the words "Proud Infidel" in Arabic? That would rank right up there with "Looking for a Japanese Girlfriend" in Japanese.

Actually, I too am a person of the book. I just have a slightly different type of book.

There are lots of "Infidel" (kafir) shirts. I haven't seen "proud", but it would be easy enough to make.

 

[TheWabbit]

I wore my كافر shirt to Fry's once. The look on the cashier's face was somwhere between shock and confusion. He is from Pakistan. I've also received many compliments on it.

 

[Brina]

Would you feel comfortable having the world judge your beliefs from their reading about or hearing from the Westboro Baptist Church?

Do you feel comfortable that the whole world judges our beliefs from their watching Friends, all 5 Rockys, Steven Segal movies, Oprah, and Dr. Phil?! From my experience that's just what happens.

 

[iChokePeople]

Do you feel comfortable that the whole world judges our beliefs from their watching Friends, all 5 Rockys, Steven Segal movies, Oprah, and Dr. Phil?! From my experience that's just what happens.

Um, I think you're reinforcing my point. Unless you're saying that two wrong/stupid/ignorant things make it ok.

 

[Brina]

Um, I think you're reinforcing my point. Unless you're saying that two wrong/stupid/ignorant things make it ok.

absolutely, i am reinforcing your point.

 

[iChokePeople]

absolutely, i am reinforcing your point.

In that case, I won't be forced to publicly question your patriotism, lifestyle choices, and the marital status of your parents.

 

[Arickosmo]

hehe...and my kids ask why we're USAKafir on xbox...lol.

 

[blamecharles]

In that case, I won't be forced to publicly question your patriotism, lifestyle choices, and the marital status of your parents.

You could just fart in his general direction.