Indianapolis Airport: Declaring a Firearm?

[chipbennett]

I have walked up to the ticket counter several times and quietly announced that I needed to declare a firearm and people around me would back away. I have had female agents back up and look faint when I opened the gun case for them to inspect (with the gun clearly disassembled in pieces). They will sometimes attempt to attach the "declared unloaded firearm" tag to the outside of your bag. Wrong. Some agents have assumed that I was an LEO and handed me the wrong paperwork to fill out (which puts me in the position of impersonating a police officer). I kid you not. Know the rules. The TSA does not. Some of the agents don't either. Ask for a Supervisor if they don't know.

That's funny, actually. There were two counter agents, and the first one thought I was an air marshall. (Thanks for the compliment?) But the other one clearly knew what she was doing. Neither one was concerned or bothered. The first agent hadn't dealt with a declared firearm before, but the second was quite knowledgeable. The first agent initially thought the declared firearm tag went inside the locked gun case, but the other agent politely corrected her that it goes inside the luggage, but outside the locked firearm case.

Overall, just a better-than-expected experience.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Now thats funny, "Please MR. (Security) can you show me a copy of your SOP's and or regulations" ?!? No No reason, I am just wondering, my name? Why its right there on the ticket Mr. AL Kyda, from East Cup Cake Wazirystan, and oh by the way, take me into your secure baggage area, so I can watch you drool over my collectors edition Lorcin. Whats that ? No..................why this is awfull......this is America, I know my rights, hey why you putting on the blue gloves?

seriously, just fly by the rules.

 

[Tobryan]

Tagged...thank you!

 

[VERT]

I have had them put the tag both inside the locked box and also tape it to the outside of the box. I have went with the bag to the screening area and not. Truthfully I don't know what the "procedure" is. But I have checked a handgun several times with no problems. I use a mine gun vault with the combination lock. The I simply us the steel cable to secure the case to the inside frame of my luggage. Ammunition goes in either the original cartoon or a plastic ammo box. Like I said never had a problem.

 

[Drail]

If the people in charge don't even know their own rules - there will be problems. Imagine if every traffic cop on the road had no training on the legal codes but could write you tickets for anything they dream up. That might be a problem.

 

[Bluejeeper]

Now thats funny, "Please MR. (Security) can you show me a copy of your SOP's and or regulations" ?!? No No reason, I am just wondering, my name? Why its right there on the ticket Mr. AL Kyda, from East Cup Cake Wazirystan, and oh by the way, take me into your secure baggage area, so I can watch you drool over my collectors edition Lorcin. Whats that ? No..................why this is awfull......this is America, I know my rights, hey why you putting on the blue gloves?

seriously, just fly by the rules.

That's right, be a good compliant sheep for the guys with the badges.

And it's not RULES we're dealing with here. It's FEDERAL LAW. And federal law says you must have possession of the key or combo AT ALL TIMES.

 

[Alamo]

When I travel from Indy it's exactly like you said but in addition...

they stamp your boarding pass or give you a card to give to the TSA screeners that identifies you as a firearm person. Once you pass security they ask you for the key and you wait until they go check your luggage and bring you back the key. It's been about a year, since I've flown, I hope the process had changed but that Has happened to me at least twice. It takes them about 10 minutes.

Indianapolis is the only airport that I have checked a gun with that demanded the combination to the locked case. That is why I don't carry a pistol that can not be easily replaced when flying. Every other airport simply placed the tag in the box and put a barcode of some sort on my bag. Three times now I have watched my bag leave the cargo hold while getting off the plane.

Same here. I haven't flown out of Indy for awhile, but every time I have, they do the "give this card to the TSA Supervisor" thing, and after passing the security station I go to the TSA supervisor's booth and some TSA person runs off with the key for awhile. Yes that seems counter to the law. Never encountered this anywhere else.

 

[indyblue]

OK, I checked to see if the Federal Flight Rules had changed since I flew last. It has been "amended" 3 times (last one was 2006) but I could not find any reference to what exactly was amended and every single cite for the FFR shows the original wording of the law. It does clearly state that only you may have possession of the key and/or combination to the gun case at ALL TIMES - no one else. If they ask for the key you may legally refuse but be prepared for the TSA agents brains to explode if you do. I have spoken with several passengers who did refuse to give TSA the key - when TSA got all pissy about it airline supervisors were called and they told the TSA it was the way the passenger claimed it was. One passenger actually threatened to summon a police officer to arrest the TSA agent who demanded that he give him the key (illegal under Federal law). The TSA agent immediately backed down at that suggestion and said "OK!". The airline has the final determination on what or may not may go in THEIR aircraft - NOT the TSA. The TSA's authority does not extend past the boarding checkpoints. Aircraft are operated under Federal Flight Rules and/or any additional rules required by the airline's insurance carrier (like how much ammo weight you can check). These rules have been in place and followed for many years before 9-11 and the "creation" of the Dept. of Homeboy Security. Print the air carrier's rules and take them with you because the TSA is NOT using the rule of law. They just make it up as they go. They need to be held to some kind of standard but they get away with a lot of ridiculous stuff only because no one hardly ever challenges them. They are simply security guards impersonating real cops. And they have been caught many times stealing passenger's property. Their only function is to make dumb Americans "feel safer". This is just like OC and cops who don't know what the law actually says. Stand up for you rights.

May I ask where you found this info? I cannot find any passage stating the key(s) must be in possession of the key. I googled & googled ("federal+flight+rules+gun+case+lock+keys) some more but can only come up with this one bullet point on tsa.gov. None of the other mentions of this law show up on a .gov site.

Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration

* Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.

 

[Drail]

Search for 49 CFR 1540.111 part C 2 IV under Code of Federal Regulations. Don't use TSA in the search terms. This law was written before their time. The TSA "recommends" not "requires" you give them the key. I also just read on a lawyer's website that TSA agents are "specifically prohibited from handling any firearms" per TSA regulations and that they have no training whatsoever regarding proper handling of firearms. Under the law they must not ask you for the key and if they do you must not give it to them. But they "recommend" that you do this. The TSA website actually states how much you can be "fined" for "interfering" with their agents while they violate Federal law and your civil rights. I am so glad that I no longer have to fly in this country. A while back some TSA clowns "destroyed" an antique cello while "examining" it that was insured for several million dollars. Their response - "we're not responsible for damages" Yeah, those are the guys I want playing with my guns in some little room.

 

[chipbennett]

Same here. I haven't flown out of Indy for awhile, but every time I have, they do the "give this card to the TSA Supervisor" thing, and after passing the security station I go to the TSA supervisor's booth and some TSA person runs off with the key for awhile. Yes that seems counter to the law. Never encountered this anywhere else.

Oh, I was supposed to give it to the TSA *supervisor*? I completely missed that part. Oh well; it doesn't appear to have caused any issues whatsoever.

I'll be interested to see how the experience differs when I take the firearm back through Lambert St. Louis (probably in December, unless my contract gets extended). I've already had one less-than-ideal experience with TSA at Lambert, where both the TSA agent and the supervisor refused to accept my then-temporary Indiana driver's license (the paper one you get while waiting for your permanent one to be mailed) as a valid, primary form of ID, and proceeded to give me a retaliatory, secondary inspection, almost making me miss my flight. So trying to declare a firearm could be even more fun.

 

[Drail]

And Lambert has had a very bad reputation for TSA abuses for years. Watch your six. Allow LOTS of extra time. Do not carry large sums of U.S. dollars. They will automatically assume you must be a drug dealer. They detained one of Ron Paul's campaign workers who was hand carrying a money box full of campaign contributions and pretty much trashed his whole day. The TSA grilled him in their little room and then they turned him over to the local cops and they grilled him some more. He never had any issues at other airports until he arrived in St. Louis. Do a search and read about it.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I've never had a problem out of Indy, or anywhere else, and I fly for a living. Do as you stated above and you should be fine. Don't be surprised if the gate agent doesn't want you to touch it, and only asks: "Is it unloaded?" when you open the case. In fact I don't think anyone has had me pick it up and clear it.

 

[Swapfoot]

Indy is one of the few places we have flown domestically where they do not let you back into the area where they inspect the firearm. However, after many trips and a change in cases, the need for providing our combination went away. We have had so many different procedures and reactions when flying that we could write some good stories. It all becomes very easy after you've done it a few times. Internationally, well that's a different story

Greg

 

[Indy-Mike]

Quick question, your flying to St. Louis? You can drive there just as fast if not faster, considering the check in time, waiting, and waiting for your bags.

 

[chipbennett]

Quick question, your flying to St. Louis? You can drive there just as fast if not faster, considering the check in time, waiting, and waiting for your bags.

If I'm billing travel hours, I'd rather do as little work as possible for those hours. Especially if the project only allows 3 billed hours for travel, as that one did. And I didn't check bags every week; I left my luggage in my hotel room.