Indiana to start requiring Food Stamp recipients to work.

[Leo]

Just a passing thought on Brian Ski's calculations of the numbers that were provided in the reports. If the cost to the system is $6700 per month for an average recpient, and the common experience is receiving about $1700 per month, that means the overhead of the program is $5,000 per person/per month. Can the government even be that inefficient?

Wait...don't answer that.... I do not want to know.

 

[churchmouse]

Just a passing thought on Brian Ski's calculations of the numbers that were provided in the reports. If the cost to the system is $6700 per month for an average recpient, and the common experience is receiving about $1700 per month, that means the overhead of the program is $5,000 per person/per month. Can the government even be that inefficient?

Wait...don't answer that.... I do not want to know.

You already know.

Those numbers are skewed.

 

[HoughMade]

Interesting. Don't think it is a juggling numbers thing, but what I read....
According to the institute’s data, a two-earner couple receiving an average wage — $44,600 per spouse in 2012 dollars — and turning 65 in 2010 would have paid $722,000 into Social Security and Medicare and can be expected to take out $966,000 in benefits. So, this couple will be paid about one-third more in benefits than they paid in taxes.

Ok $966,000 with an average life expectancy of 77, retire at 65 is 12 years, (966,000/12) 80k a year and about $6700 a month. Seems to be 3-4 times higher than what people are getting.

I know we are dealing with averages. Some people may live to 90 and some people may never collect.

One small point- the average life expectance of about 74 for men and 77 for women is at birth. If you live to 65, your life expectancy is more than 12 years. In fact, every day you live, your life expectancy increases. At 65, the life expectancy for white makes in over 17 years and for white women it is over 20 years. It is a year to a year and half less for black males and females.

Also, remember the example given was for 2 wage earners. At 20 years , 960,000 eqquates to $2012.50 per person per month. At 18 years, it is $2,236.11 per person.

 

[Leo]

You always hear the stories about old aunt millie who paid in $60 per year for two years and then collected until she was 103 years old. Without any data I can assure you that is not the norm, or the system would have been bankrupt in 1942, even before President Lyndon Johnson's administration made a way that the SS funds could be robbed for other social programs.

That is just rational reasoning.

 

[churchmouse]

You always hear the stories about old aunt millie who paid in $60 per year for two years and then collected until she was 103 years old. Without any data I can assure you that is not the norm, or the system would have been bankrupt in 1942, even before President Lyndon Johnson's administration made a way that the SS funds could be robbed for other social programs.

That is just rational reasoning.

Yup, our good buddy LBJ.
I have been pondering the thought that it takes more than twice what I and the wife receive monthly to man the sytem and run it. I see the infrastructure and employees involved but that is a hell of a budget to operate on and a glowing example of the waste involved.

 

[Brian Ski]

One small point- the average life expectance of about 74 for men and 77 for women is at birth. If you live to 65, your life expectancy is more than 12 years. In fact, every day you live, your life expectancy increases. At 65, the life expectancy for white makes in over 17 years and for white women it is over 20 years. It is a year to a year and half less for black males and females.

Also, remember the example given was for 2 wage earners. At 20 years , 960,000 eqquates to $2012.50 per person per month. At 18 years, it is $2,236.11 per person.

I was going with the averages. Since a lot of people do not even make it to 65. They pay in (maybe for a while) but won't even get a single check. The average life expectancy of an US American is 75 for a male and 79 for a female. I averaged it to 77.

The number for a family income (18 year 2 people $4,472). Normally the female is getting less from SS than the male. Even with your numbers of $2,236 each for 2 people per month at 18 years seems way high, more than double.

 

[churchmouse]

I was going with the averages. Since a lot of people do not even make it to 65. They won't even get a single check. The average life expectancy of an US American is 75 for a male and 79 for a female. I averaged it to 77.

The number for a family income (18 year 2 people $4,472). Normally the female is getting less from SS than the male. Even with your numbers of $2,236 each for 2 people per month at 18 years seems way high, more than double.

If I see 75 I will be far more blessed by the higher powers than I already am. I was given 3 years in 2002. Non-hogkins lymphoma (sp). This is why I took an early retirement. I seriously doubt I will make the average age. I will never see all the money I paid into this poncy scheme.
My wife is medically retired due to serious issues and I doubt she will see the average either. So many do not make the number.
If they take it, we want it back.
I see the problems this cause's straight line thinkers. No, it is not a fair system and you can thank the likes of LBJ for opening the flood gates and draining the pond.
The system has become a Tumor on society and like all sickness it is sucking the life out of this country.

 

[HoughMade]

Not to belabor the point, but as a lawyer who deals with calculations of life expectancy, future damages and the like I am very familiar with how "average life expectancy" works.

AT BIRTH, the average live expectancy is about 74 for men and 77 for women. The average AT BIRTH takes into account that some people die at 3 days old, 1 year old, 10 years, old, etc.....it's the nature of an average. Life EXPECTANCY is a measure of the average number of years people live from their current age, not the age at which they will die, though obviously it's easy to figure that out.

What this also means is that every day (and every year) you live, an individual's average life expectancy decreases, but the average age of death increases. Why? Because an individual's average life expectancy is based upon an average of the people their age and older. Why? You can't die at an age younger than you are, so you eliminate those deaths from the calculation.

This means that by the time you are 65, it is impossible for you to die at age 64, 50 or 15. Only people 65 and older are figured into the average. At age 65, on average, white men will live a little over 17 years, meaning, on average, they will live to 82+. Women have an average life expectancy of 20 years, meaning that the will live to age 85.

Some will live to 65 and one day, some will live to 71, some will live to 98. The statistics I quoted are from the CDC and are a relaiblle average.

 

[churchmouse]

Not to belabor the point, but as a lawyer who deals with calculations of life expectancy, future damages and the like I am very familiar with how "average life expectancy" works.

AT BIRTH, the average live expectancy is about 74 for men and 77 for women. The average AT BIRTH takes into account that some people die at 3 days old, 1 year old, 10 years, old, etc.....it's the nature of an average. Life EXPECTANCY is a measure of the average number of years people live from their current age, not the age at which they will die, though obviously it's easy to figure that out.

What this also means is that every day (and every year) you live, an individual's average life expectancy decreases, but the average age of death increases. Why? Because an individual's average life expectancy is based upon an average of the people their age and older. Why? You can't die at an age younger than you are, so you eliminate those deaths from the calculation.

This means that by the time you are 65, it is impossible for you to die at age 64, 50 or 15. Only people 65 and older are figured into the average. At age 65, on average, white men will live a little over 17 years, meaning, on average, they will live to 82+. Women have an average life expectancy of 20 years, meaning that the will live to age 85.

Some will live to 65 and one day, some will live to 71, some will live to 98. The statistics I quoted are from the CDC and are a relaiblle average.

Never questioned your math. What I see you post is generally spot on.
I look at this through my eyes and my situation. Again, not meaning to cast your math in a false or bad light and if I did it was not my intentions.
After watching watching the the slime ooze from the TV last night I am deeper in my distrust of those who occupy seats of authority. I see no end to the issues we are discussing.
I see the Constitution withering.

 

[88GT]

WHere do SSI funds come from?

 

[churchmouse]

WHere do SSI funds come from?

The tax payer general fund now.
Yes, the tax payer. I am still paying taxes on my "Entitlement".

 

[Brian Ski]

Not to belabor the point, but as a lawyer who deals with calculations of life expectancy, future damages and the like I am very familiar with how "average life expectancy" works.

I understand what you are talking about. I was going by an average expectancy of the from birth on. Versus the later one in life. (They are going by the understanding of once you start receiving money the average amount of life left to keep drawing.)

It would be interesting to see the numbers break down of the current average amount that people do receive, how many that pay in that never make it to retirement, and what is the average length of time that people draw it.

Oh well... Time to get out and do some work....

 

[88GT]

Oh well... Time to get out and do some work....

 

[Brian Ski]

Somebody has to!!!

 

[hoosierdoc]

If a person averaged $60k/year salary and saved the amount that SS demands annually into a private account that earned 8% annually, and did so from age 20 to 65, he would earn $16,000/MONTH in retirement. He would have over $3 million nest egg spinning off that $16k/mo. When he dies, his heirs get $3 mil. With SS, he'd get what, $1900/mo and when he died his heirs get nothing?

SS endures poverty for the majority of Americans and stops generational wealth creation for the average citizen.

 

[mom45]

If a person averaged $60k/year salary and saved the amount that SS demands annually into a private account that earned 8% annually, and did so from age 20 to 65, he would earn $16,000/MONTH in retirement. He would have over $3 million nest egg spinning off that $16k/mo. When he dies, his heirs get $3 mil. With SS, he'd get what, $1900/mo and when he died his heirs get nothing?

SS endures poverty for the majority of Americans and stops generational wealth creation for the average citizen.

What is paying 8%????? I haven't seen that number in a while!

 

[Brian Ski]

What is paying 8%????? I haven't seen that number in a while!

I really need to start hitting the retirement funds... I am working hard on knocking the house loan down... Your comment made me do a quick look. Surprised there were so many funds doing so well. Need to find some with a long track record. I found these with a quick look. Most are a good step above 10%. I am not good with hunting good ones out. It would be nice to find a website that list most and gives track records. Something you could search by categories.

Top 10 High Dividend Mutual Funds of the Past Decade ? newest update

3 Mutual Funds that are currently yielding 10% or more - August 1, 2011 - Zacks.com

These 10 Mutual Funds have Outdone College Costs over the last 10 Years

I should look at the dates... Looks like zacks is 3 years old, wonder how they are doing now.

 

[mom45]

I really need to start hitting the retirement funds... I am working hard on knocking the house loan down... Your comment made me do a quick look. Surprised there were so many funds doing so well. Need to find some with a long track record. I found these with a quick look. Most are a good step above 10%. I am not good with hunting good ones out. It would be nice to find a website that list most and gives track records. Something you could search by categories.

Top 10 High Dividend Mutual Funds of the Past Decade ? newest update

3 Mutual Funds that are currently yielding 10% or more - August 1, 2011 - Zacks.com

These 10 Mutual Funds have Outdone College Costs over the last 10 Years

I should look at the dates... Looks like zacks is 3 years old, wonder how they are doing now.

We have been talked into various funds by financial gurus with supposed 12% returns and such. They do great until the market DROPS like a rock and then you lose everything you gained and more. I hate to even look at statements anymore. It is quite depressing at times.

At this point, I think I'd be better off stuffing it in the mattress or buying guns. Even booze is a better investment. At least it would make good bartering material if the system crashed.

 

[Brian Ski]

We have been talked into various funds by financial gurus with supposed 12% returns and such. They do great until the market DROPS like a rock and then you lose everything you gained and more. I hate to even look at statements anymore. It is quite depressing at times.

Most of the ones that dropped have perked back up. Unless you jumped out at the bottom. Stock of all kinds do the roller coaster ride. Just this time (a couple years ago) they hit a hard drop. Look at the gold and silver buyers. They have taken the big drop lately. Buy low sell high. People that get burned are the ones that buy in the middle and sell low.

 

[mom45]

Most of the ones that dropped have perked back up. Unless you jumped out at the bottom. Stock of all kinds do the roller coaster ride. Just this time (a couple years ago) they hit a hard drop. Look at the gold and silver buyers. They have taken the big drop lately. Buy low sell high. People that get burned are the ones that buy in the middle and sell low.

The main account is still riding it out, but the last statement didn't make me very excited about the future. I'm not a believer in the stock market based on my experiences. What I have earned back has maybe replaced what I lost in the late 90's. I'm not sure I am ahead of where I would have been if I just stashed the money.