IMPD Patrols

[Doug]

I see some neighborhoods are hiring private security for protection.

Public safety cooperatives help keep neighborhoods secure - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Does the presence of an off-duty officer in an area affect how often the on-duty officers patrol there?
More often?
Less often?
Do they patrol?

I once reported a car break-in and asked the responding officer if someone could make extra patrols through the neighborhood because there had been several instances of similar happenings. He said everyone was so busy taking reports they didn't have time to patrol; they just drove from one crime report to another.

That was several years ago. Have things changed?

 

[IndyGunworks]

Nope, they are just as busy.... Thank ballard for that.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

What a great racket.

During my tenure with Cincinnati PD the gang of thugs that commanded us came up with a new scheme. They put a computer in charge, named “Oz.” Cute and fuzzy, huh?

Info about every aspect of the job went into Oz, how many calls we made, how many reports,everything. Oz then gave us a manpowerlevel for the month.

But there was a twist. We were no longer justcops. We were “patrol units” and “discretionary units.” A patrol unit did what cops have always done. Discretionary units were assigned duties from a list of approved duties, such as investigating dead end offense reports that had no hope of being solved. Discretionary units were forbidden to answer radio calls. I was required to field exactly the number of patrol units vs. discretionary units that Oz commanded.

Each month Oz changed the ratio. If I was losing Oz gave me more patrol units. But if I was winning, Oz reduced my patrol units. It soon became apparent what Oz had been put in place to do…manipulate crime rates. Discretionary unit duties were carefully crafted to have zero effect on crime rates. I spent some months as shift commander withone arm tied behind my back so that the bad guys could catch up.

I’d have every “patrol” unit on my shift scrambling to answer radio calls while the “D”cars sat somewhere drinking coffee. They were quickly dubbed “Do-Nothing” cars. Some shift commanders used assignment to “D” cars as a reward, since all they had to do was drive around for eight hours. In an emergency I had the authority to order them to actually do something…great system, huh?

Our commanders didn't want people to be so afraid of crime that they would criticize the PD. But they also didn't want people to be so complacent that the PD might face anything like budget cuts. The solution was to keep crime at "Goldilocks" level...just right.

Nothing happens in government that doesn’t have a political motivation. I suspect the reason behind IMPD’s scheme is to create off-duty employment for officers, something that is ALWAYS a very big deal in any big-city department.

 

[hornadylnl]

What good are mall cops going to be?

 

[phylodog]

What a great racket.

During my tenure with Cincinnati PD the gang of thugs that commanded us came up with a new scheme. They put a computer in charge, named “Oz.” Cute and fuzzy, huh?

Info about every aspect of the job went into Oz, how many calls we made, how many reports,everything. Oz then gave us a manpowerlevel for the month.

But there was a twist. We were no longer justcops. We were “patrol units” and “discretionary units.” A patrol unit did what cops have always done. Discretionary units were assigned duties from a list of approved duties, such as investigating dead end offense reports that had no hope of being solved. Discretionary units were forbidden to answer radio calls. I was required to field exactly the number of patrol units vs. discretionary units that Oz commanded.

Each month Oz changed the ratio. If I was losing Oz gave me more patrol units. But if I was winning, Oz reduced my patrol units. It soon became apparent what Oz had been put in place to do…manipulate crime rates. Discretionary unit duties were carefully crafted to have zero effect on crime rates. I spent some months as shift commander withone arm tied behind my back so that the bad guys could catch up.

I’d have every “patrol” unit on my shift scrambling to answer radio calls while the “D”cars sat somewhere drinking coffee. They were quickly dubbed “Do-Nothing” cars. Some shift commanders used assignment to “D” cars as a reward, since all they had to do was drive around for eight hours. In an emergency I had the authority to order them to actually do something…great system, huh?

Our commanders didn't want people to be so afraid of crime that they would criticize the PD. But they also didn't want people to be so complacent that the PD might face anything like budget cuts. The solution was to keep crime at "Goldilocks" level...just right.

Nothing happens in government that doesn’t have a political motivation. I suspect the reason behind IMPD’s scheme is to create off-duty employment for officers, something that is ALWAYS a very big deal in any big-city department.

any
The agency has little control over off duty employment. IMPD does not benefit in any way from officers working part time. I'm just a peon so i haven't a clue about their motivations for what they do but I don't believe your theory is correct.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

any
The agency has little control over off duty employment. IMPD does not benefit in any way from officers working part time. I'm just a peon so i haven't a clue about their motivations for what they do but I don't believe your theory is correct.

Just a guess on my part.

 

[covert justice]

I have been a police officer for close to 20 years. People can not leave their safety or protection to the govt. They have to take an active role or be happy being a victim. Even if we had the time to patrol, there would be plenty of time for criminals to act. That is my opinion and take it for what you will. People should also know that the county population has ever expanded since the 1960's but the number of police officers has not. Our Metro. department has lost more people than we have hired in the past several years.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Nope, they are just as busy.... Thank ballard for that.

That's an interesting theory. What gives you the idea that Mayor Ballard is at fault?

 

[tenring]

What happened to all those LEO that were put on the streets that Clinton borrowed money to finance? That deal was supposed to be the Magic Bullet on crime.

 

[Denny347]

That's an interesting theory. What gives you the idea that Mayor Ballard is at fault?

Buck stops with him. We've hired 17 officer in 3 years but have lost close to 100 with another 30 or so leaving in Jan. In fact, because they will not hire, we are below Federally mandated staffing and the city has to repay the 3.8 million dollars given to us that we used to hire officers with several years ago. There are no plans to hire in 2013 either. The administration is telling the news that we will have to do more with less. We are at dangerously low levels of officers on patrol and it's going to get worse. We are being forced to do less with less. But Vaughn seems unconcerned. They are clueless.

 

[red68ss]

It's Ballards fault for letting the department fall to 1300 officers. There was 1650 when he took office. Now he has to pay back the cops grant to the tune of 4.3 million dollars which is why he is taking the police and fire raises to pay back the grant. It seems Mr. Straub wasn't smart enough to ask for the grant extension. He was to busy spend 390,000 remodeling his office and making kickback deals for selling police helicopters.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Buck stops with him. We've hired 17 officer in 3 years but have lost close to 100 with another 30 or so leaving in Jan. In fact, because they will not hire, we are below Federally mandated staffing and the city has to repay the 3.8 million dollars given to us that we used to hire officers with several years ago. There are no plans to hire in 2013 either. The administration is telling the news that we will have to do more with less. We are at dangerously low levels of officers on patrol and it's going to get worse. We are being forced to do less with less. But Vaughn seems unconcerned. They are clueless.

Everyone is being forced to "do more with less" because there isn't any more money to be had. God Bless you and your fellows, but that Ballard hasn't succumbed to the pressure to hire more public safety personnel with money that the City/County doesn't have just tells me that he has his priorities right. The City/County has known about the unfunded pension issues and other financial problems since Richard Hudnut was Mayor and has chosen to put them off. Part of the reason Steve Goldsmith didn't run for election again was the looming pension issue, and Bart Peterson made plenty of promises - which he couldn't keep - and ultimately got defeated because he'd never seen a tax he didn't like, plus the police and fire consolidation patently didn't save any of the money it was promised to save; instead we spent a lot of money on police/sheriff consolidation and six years later there's a call for the Sheriff to have Road Deputies again to "take up some of the slack". You folks have priced yourselves out of the market.

Having more police on the streets isn't a solution to our problems; you all aren't making a significant dent in crime - not enough to justify hiring more of you with money WE DON'T HAVE.

 

[Doug]

I have been a police officer for close to 20 years. People can not leave their safety or protection to the govt. They have to take an active role or be happy being a victim. Even if we had the time to patrol, there would be plenty of time for criminals to act. That is my opinion and take it for what you will. People should also know that the county population has ever expanded since the 1960's but the number of police officers has not. Our Metro. department has lost more people than we have hired in the past several years.

So, does that mean rather than patrol an area to provide a presence and anticipate problems, you are spending almost all your time responding to calls; reactive policing rather than proactive policing?

It used to be, people would call to alert the police they were going on vacation so the local officer could keep an eye on the house. Does this still happen, outside of Mayberry?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

It's Ballards fault for letting the department fall to 1300 officers. There was 1650 when he took office. Now he has to pay back the cops grant to the tune of 4.3 million dollars which is why he is taking the police and fire raises to pay back the grant. It seems Mr. Straub wasn't smart enough to ask for the grant extension. He was to busy spend 390,000 remodeling his office and making kickback deals for selling police helicopters.

You have some proof of this accusation? Understand me, I didn't like Straub and I'm glad he's gone, but if he committed a felony by soliciting a kickback for selling the IPD helicopters, I'd like to know so I can call the news media and scream about it.

 

[Denny347]

Money they don't have? Mark my words, they have money for what they want. I know the Simon's are up to renegotiate Indy's part in funding the Pacer's Fieldhouse. You will see the City giving them MILLIONS more to run the fieldhouse. Vaughn say there will be money saved by cutting back our OT...what OT???? (a prime example that they know little about how we do business and what we are already doing to cut costs) We trade everything out now. The street patrol has ghost numbers when they pull us to work the races, Black Expo, Superbowl, Monon Trail, canal, Broad Ripple,and now it's football season...ALL the home football games. I am not sure what it will take for them to realize they are driving us down a dangerous path. I responded to a fight in progress. It was 10 friggin minutes until the closest back-up arrived to help me. We are not working some huge rural area where response times are always long but there is so little crime that it rarely matters. This is the inner city where back-up used to be 1-3 minutes away and we are up to our armpits in criminals. It seems that no one..the tax payers, the Mayor's office, and our administration gives a crap so as long as their taxes don't go up and crime doesn't touch them. At some point someone going to get hurt because we can only do so much with so little.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Having more police on the streets isn't a solution to our problems; you all aren't making a significant dent in crime - not enough to justify hiring more of you with money WE DON'T HAVE.

Keep telling yourself that when we have so few officers that even emergency runs will pend for hours before they are taken care of. If the citizens of Indianapolis want us to effectively do our jobs we need to have adequate manpower to do it. Right now most of the busier areas of town are reactive only and so long as they can't be proactive, the crime rate will rise.

 

[Nmathew24]

Right now in Marion Co. we will see less patrols even in this coming year.

1. This is a big retirement year.
2. Last I heard IMPD did not have the money to pay the instructors for new coming officers and reserve officers.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Money they don't have? Mark my words, they have money for what they want. I know the Simon's are up to renegotiate Indy's part in funding the Pacer's Fieldhouse. You will see the City giving them MILLIONS more to run the fieldhouse. Vaughn say there will be money saved by cutting back our OT...what OT???? (a prime example that they know little about how we do business and what we are already doing to cut costs) We trade everything out now. The street patrol has ghost numbers when they pull us to work the races, Black Expo, Superbowl, Monon Trail, canal, Broad Ripple,and now it's football season...ALL the home football games. I am not sure what it will take for them to realize they are driving us down a dangerous path. I responded to a fight in progress. It was 10 friggin minutes until the closest back-up arrived to help me. We are not working some huge rural area where response times are always long but there is so little crime that it rarely matters. This is the inner city where back-up used to be 1-3 minutes away and we are up to our armpits in criminals. It seems that no one..the tax payers, the Mayor's office, and our administration gives a crap so as long as their taxes don't go up and crime doesn't touch them. At some point someone going to get hurt because we can only do so much with so little.

Keep telling yourself that when we have so few officers that even emergency runs will pend for hours before they are taken care of. If the citizens of Indianapolis want us to effectively do our jobs we need to have adequate manpower to do it. Right now most of the busier areas of town are reactive only and so long as they can't be proactive, the crime rate will rise.

As much as I like and respect the IMPD and (to a lesser extent) the MCSD, excuse me if I don't go all into crisis over the prospect of having to provide for my own security. Even now with 1000+ officers on the street you folks generally just pick up the pieces afterward. You complain about backup being more than a couple minutes away; in parts of other counties in the state, backup is MANY minutes away. I get the safety issues involved; I understand the financial issues involved - at least some of them - but the fact is, we could have 10,000 cops on the streets of Marion County and you still would be complaining you need more help - and we'd still have murders and breakins and robberies.

Perhaps when the economy improves we'll be able to afford to hire more police, but face it guys, the Department of Public Safety isn't the only part of the City/County government that needs attention badly and you've had a high priority for years and years now.

 

[hornadylnl]

Money they don't have? Mark my words, they have money for what they want. I know the Simon's are up to renegotiate Indy's part in funding the Pacer's Fieldhouse. You will see the City giving them MILLIONS more to run the fieldhouse. Vaughn say there will be money saved by cutting back our OT...what OT???? (a prime example that they know little about how we do business and what we are already doing to cut costs) We trade everything out now. The street patrol has ghost numbers when they pull us to work the races, Black Expo, Superbowl, Monon Trail, canal, Broad Ripple,and now it's football season...ALL the home football games. I am not sure what it will take for them to realize they are driving us down a dangerous path. I responded to a fight in progress. It was 10 friggin minutes until the closest back-up arrived to help me. We are not working some huge rural area where response times are always long but there is so little crime that it rarely matters. This is the inner city where back-up used to be 1-3 minutes away and we are up to our armpits in criminals. It seems that no one..the tax payers, the Mayor's office, and our administration gives a crap so as long as their taxes don't go up and crime doesn't touch them. At some point someone going to get hurt because we can only do so much with so little.

You need to blame the voters who put a higher priority on sports welfare than an effectively run city.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

but the fact is, we could have 10,000 cops on the streets of Marion County and you still would be complaining you need more help

I wouldn't be complaining, and neither would any of the other LEOs in the county. But the citizens sure as hell would be about it being a "police state" (or police county).