IMPD chief says investigation into officer-involved shooting will take time

[churchmouse]

Getting the FEDS involved could be an attempt to remove locals from the process and avoid the impending riots.

Or not.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Getting the FEDS involved could be an attempt to remove locals from the process and avoid the impending riots.

Or not.

Excellent point; However, one wonders why it never occurs to these people that once you run out of rioters there will be no more riot.

 

[SSGSAD]

I've been through the process from both the investigator and the investigated side.

The shooting officer can be compelled to give a brief "public safety" statement. This is done at the order of officer who outranks him and is not admissible in criminal trials (I believe it is in civil, though). The statement is limited to things like if there are other suspects still out, etc. Things that are an immediate impact to public safety, not why you shot or that sort of thing.

You will be compelled to give a statement to Internal Affairs. "Garrity rights" keeps this compelled statement from being used in any criminal proceedings because this is, at it's heart, a coerced statement in that if you don't give it you're fired. Your lawyer will be there, but you have to answer the questions honestly and completely, there's no "my client won't answer that" sort of thing.

Under some circumstances, the officer's attorney may be asked for the officer to answer certain questions. I've only seen this once, and when there was no witnessing officers who could be questioned instead about where people were standing, etc and the scene was pretty complex. The lead detective wanted the information (coincidentally, the same one who's investigating this one) so we did not miss any evidence in a very geographically large scene. The officer and his lawyer did a walk through with the lead and me (I was assisting investigator) and showed us where he was when he first shot, where he took cover and shot, where both suspects were originally and where they moved, etc.

All police action shootings, even if unquestionably a good shoot, are to go in front of a Grand Jury by ordinance.

I recommend you have a lawyer and have one that will respond to the scene. I also recommend you give the responding officers the following information and then shut up:
1) That you were the victim and had to use force in self defense. (That guy tried to rob me and I had to defend myself)
2) If there were additional suspects, and descriptions of them if there were (the other guy had a gun a well, he fled that way, he looked like...)
3) Identify any potential witnesses before they disappear. (That lady on the porch saw the whole thing)
4) Identify any evidence before it has a chance to disappear, get damaged, or destroyed. (He dropped his gun and it slid under that car)

That's it. Yes, you can say nothing. Just realize by doing so you can hurt your case long term by letting evidence go without being preserved and collected, witnesses not interviewed, etc.



Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on if there are witnesses, what the crime scene can tell the investigator, etc. I've seen a shooter cleared before he was even interviewed because the evidence was overwhelming it was a self defense shooting. That's the advantage of shooting a robber in a business full of people who stuck around to say what happened, having a body wearing a mask with a gun under it, etc. However it's another reason to make a very brief statement as I laid out above. The more evidence that can be found to clear you, the better for you short and long term.

WOW ! that is good info ..... Thanks .....

 

[SSGSAD]

Bad feeling that it was a bad shoot or bad feeling that someone is about to get thrown under the bus for the sake of politics?

So, is one going to "survive", and the other going under the "bus" ?????

 

[Thor]

Maybe we should just have an automated message sent over loudspeakers whenever a cruiser with its rollers flashing comes to a stop, something to the effect of "KEEP YOUR HANDS AT THE 10 AND 2 POSITION ON THE STEERING WHEEL! DOING OTHERWISE COULD PROVE HARMFUL TO YOUR HEALTH!"
Not being sarcastic, only wishing that people's urge for self-preservation and common sense would prevent needless loss of life and LEOs from having their lives turned upside down.

The urge for self-preservation and common sense do not involve fleeing a traffic stop and crashing your car at 1:30 in the am...no additional commands or warning can penetrate that stupid.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So, is one going to "survive", and the other going under the "bus" ?????

I could see it. The other side will be happy so long as there is a head on a pike, regardless of whether that head is guilty or not, regardless of whether both participated equally or not.

 

[oldpink]

The urge for self-preservation and common sense do not involve fleeing a traffic stop and crashing your car at 1:30 in the am...no additional commands or warning can penetrate that stupid.

That shouldn't need mention, but too many people out there are so incredibly selfish and lacking in scruples or common sense that they think that's perfectly acceptable behavior.

 

[T.Lex]

Mayor calls for overhaul of training, review in wake of officer-involved shooting - Local News - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Interesting way to try to get out in front of a demonstration - urging it to be a "celebration" of "when some of those request and demands have been met from our mayor"...
Kinda curious about what the "requests and demands" were....

 

[IndyDave1776]

Nice. Hogsh*t has apparently already made up his mind what happened or else is shamelessly pandering. Either seems to fit his (lack of) character.

As for the question of how to prevent something like this from happening again, my first guess is that not leading the police on a high-speed chase and then doing something that leads them to believe you are getting ready to draw on them is a good start.

 

[SSGSAD]

^^^^^ THIS, what I heard on the radio, was that FLEEING, changed EVERYTHING !!!!!

I quote myself, on purpose .....

I heard this on the Hammer & Nigel show ..... TWICE .....

Once, before I posted this, and now again today ..... Friday .....

Also, one of them has a friend, a Capt., on the B'burg PD, and

they were talking about the "changes"

Mayor Hogsett, is talking about .....

 

[SSGSAD]

I could see it. The other side will be happy so long as there is a head on a pike, regardless of whether that head is guilty or not, regardless of whether both participated equally or not.

THAT, is exactly, what I am afraid of .....

 

[SSGSAD]

Mayor calls for overhaul of training, review in wake of officer-involved shooting - Local News - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Interesting way to try to get out in front of a demonstration - urging it to be a "celebration" of "when some of those request and demands have been met from our mayor"...
Kinda curious about what the "requests and demands" were....

I have no problem, with a change of training .....

However, NOT to persue a suspect, because of what might happen,

is just as silly as persuing, and having something bad happen .....

I want my PD, to PROTECT and SERVE .....

NOT to be "political puppets" .....

I want my PD, Officers, to have brains, common sense, discretion,

and the ability, to be trained to do a job .....

Just like I was, in the Military .....

JMHO ..... YMMV .....

 

[jamil]

Yep.

That's a bad day.

Now it starts feeling more like a mini-coup, with the chief as the mini-coup-er. (Get it? "Mini Cooper"?)

I happen to know of one of the people appointed to the DOJ - civil rights division as part of the Pence team. He has a relative (or had) on IMPD. Gets a little close for comfort.

first things first. The mini-cooper thing. That needs Denny'd.

Second.

What reasons would there be to get the FBI involved in this? I'd like to understand that

 

[Fargo]

What reasons would there be to get the FBI involved in this? I'd like to understand that

Outside agency review is far from uncommon on potentially controversial shootings. Appearance of a conflict or bias etc. for the feds to do it rather than someone else is uncommon, but far from unheard-of when we are talking about the largest agency in the state.

T.Lex brings up a good point about the civil rights division having ties to Pence but I tend to think that it is more the mayor having a working relationship with the local FBI due to his time as the top local fed. If we were further along in the investigation and there were rumblings about a deprivation of civil rights charge, I would be more inclined to go with the Pence connection.

At the end of the day, I would wager it is largely about butt covering.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Outside agency review is far from uncommon on potentially controversial shootings. Appearance of a conflict or bias etc. for the feds to do it rather than someone else is uncommon, but far from unheard-of when we are talking about the largest agency in the state.

T.Lex brings up a good point about the civil rights division having ties to Pence but I tend to think that it is more the mayor having a working relationship with the local FBI due to his time as the top local fed. If we were further along in the investigation and there were rumblings about a deprivation of civil rights charge, I would be more inclined to go with the Pence connection.

At the end of the day, I would wager it is largely about butt covering.

Butt covering and perhaps the hope of being able to throw someone under the bus without it looking like doing such rather than taking the hit politically, all while avoiding the appearance of 'we thoroughly investigated ourselves and found no wrong-doing'.

 

[SSGSAD]

According to FOX 59, a SPECIAL Prosecutor, has been appointed .....

 

[HoughMade]

According to FOX 59, a SPECIAL Prosecutor, has been appointed .....

Special....like cognitively disabled "special"?

 

[T.Lex]

Special....like cognitively disabled "special"?

You tell us. He's from St. Joe county, apparently.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Special....like cognitively disabled "special"?

No bueno.

 

[HoughMade]

No bueno.

I'm asking questions here.