Ignoring gender?

[AA&E]

The topic in the OP is not reassignment surgery. It's gender identification.

There was some reference previously made regarding chemical alterations to prevent puberty. If you are satisfied allowing a child to roleplay (lack of a better word, not intended to be offensive) their way through the teenage years before making serious choices, I'd have no issue with that. I previously posted about a woman I knew in junior/senior high that was adamant she was gay. Everyone believed her. I did. Imagine my surprise when I met her husband at the class reunion...

Sometimes children make choices for various reasons that are not always rational. Sometimes there is influence pulling the strings. If there was a genetic marker we could point to and say "opps.. mother nature screwed this one up in processing" it would be one thing perhaps. But as is, I think taking things slow is the best bet.

Even if with that said, I do not feel it is fair to force everyone around these individuals to live in the manner as they see fit. I've worked in a facility with a transgender person. The women that used to be put off by the crude/rude individual he was before, now get to share restroom facilities with this person. Is that fair? Never mind the impending threat of action anytime she gets her feelings hurt because someone didn't respond when she attempts making small talk and gets offended. Some people (especially older generations) have a real difficult time dealing with these types of issues. Tolerance and professionalism is something everyone has the right to expect. Acceptance is not.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

The topic in the OP is not reassignment surgery. It's gender identification.

Ok back on point. There are measurable ways to determine if a person is male or female. As far as the intangibles go, the amount of people that fall under that category is very small. I don't have numbers or statistics to say how small, but I think we can all agree it's small. As with most things in this culture, I'm sure the Girl Scouts association probably feels a lot of pressure not to offend anyone to maintain a public image of tolerance and acceptance no matter how minuscule the group is. Offending someone leads to lawsuits and smearing of reputations.

As far as gender identification goes, men and women were designed (gasp) with specific roles. When men abuse their roles, it's very bad. When women abuse their roles, it's very bad. I understand there are circumstances where a man or a woman has to be a single parent, but it's not ideal. There are traits that can best be taught by a woman: caring and nurturing and being sensitive to people's emotions. Not that men can't display those characteristics but they are beautifully displayed in women. And there are traits best taught by a man: courage and hard work and strength in times of hardship. Again, obviously women can be examples of those attributes as well, but that's how we were made (gasp) to be.

Edit: I hope everyone understands that I'm not mad or upset with anybody in this thread. Snap, Cathy, Chez. I like all you guys and I respect that you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. But you have the right to be wrong. So do I.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Amen. These children are being lead to this conclusion in some form or another. You can't convince me children that haven't even reached PUBERTY yet.. and therefore lack the hormonal makeup that separates men and women, are figuring out all on their own that they were really supposed to be a "whatever"...

Right. When you look at the parents of these kids, it becomes very obvious that the kid didn't make the decision on his or her own. It's child abuse. They're using their kids as political tools and doing some serious harm in the process.

 

[Snapdragon]

Understand it? I knew I was born a boy early on. But is that enough of an understanding to make such an enormous change in your life? It goes far beyond that. To be chemically altering someone's hormonal makeup before their bodies even have the opportunity to come into it's own... strikes me as medically unethical. Kids have all kinds of phases they go through in life. I knew a girl that experimented with homosexuality in junior/senior high school. Today she is happily married and has 2 children and zero attraction to women. Life altering and possibly permanently damaging choices should not be something we allow youth to jump into without the maturity levels required to make rational decisions. Some of these children are preteen for god's sake...

Gender identity has zero to do with sexual orientation.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Which sex someone is attracted to is not a factor. How many people go into Scouting to find a love interest? That's not its purpose.

While it may not be the intent of 99.99% of those that go into scouting, I certainly wouldn't totally rule out the possibility that a cunning young boy (believe me, boys can be sly even when young) could enroll in Girl Scouts for less than true intentions. Even if intentions were pure, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a transgender individual, or a young child that "thinks they might be trans" has a revelation or change while in scouts and "things happen". Common? No way! But not out of the realm of possibility.

I would like to think that the girl scouts is a place that is safe to send a girl without sexual issues becoming a problem, without exposing a young girl's innocence to male genitalia, or heaven forbid, sexual relations/abuse/etc. But that isn't necessarily true; what is stopping a young girl that identifies as a lesbian from joining girl scouts? Nothing. Being the father of a young girl this is a very tough issue to objectively speak on. That being said, while keeping the interests of all parties in-mind, I think as long as the proper checks and balance are in place so that the girls are not exposed "girls in boy's bodies" in the naked form, nor are there any opportunity for sexual assaults etc to take place, I don't think it is my position to say that a trans girl can't take part in girl scouts.

 

[Dirtebiker]

When I was a kid there used to be a commercial on for Girl Scouts. At the end they go through showing girls of all different races and whatever. they all say " A girl like me" But one of them was a man. Grown up man Weird.

Jason

When my daughters were Girl Scouts I was a registered Girl Scout!
You have to be a registered member to take on leadership roles.
Girl Scouting was/is a GREAT experience for our whole family!

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

When my daughters were Girl Scouts I was a registered Girl Scout!
You have to be a registered member to take on leadership roles.
Girl Scouting was/is a GREAT experience for our whole family!

But you have a male organ

 

[chezuki]

Right. When you look at the parents of these kids, it becomes very obvious that the kid didn't make the decision on his or her own. It's child abuse. They're using their kids as political tools and doing some serious harm in the process.

Show me the abuse here...

Part 1: Transgender in Cincinnati

 

[Dirtebiker]

Ok back on point. There are measurable ways to determine if a person is male or female. As far as the intangibles go, the amount of people that fall under that category is very small. I don't have numbers or statistics to say how small, but I think we can all agree it's small. As with most things in this culture, I'm sure the Girl Scouts association probably feels a lot of pressure not to offend anyone to maintain a public image of tolerance and acceptance no matter how minuscule the group is. Offending someone leads to lawsuits and smearing of reputations.

As far as gender identification goes, men and women were designed (gasp) with specific roles. When men abuse their roles, it's very bad. When women abuse their roles, it's very bad. I understand there are circumstances where a man or a woman has to be a single parent, but it's not ideal. There are traits that can best be taught by a woman: caring and nurturing and being sensitive to people's emotions. Not that men can't display those characteristics but they are beautifully displayed in women. And there are traits best taught by a man: courage and hard work and strength in times of hardship. Again, obviously women can be examples of those attributes as well, but that's how we were made (gasp) to be.

Edit: I hope everyone understands that I'm not mad or upset with anybody in this thread. Snap, Cathy, Chez. I like all you guys and I respect that you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. But you have the right to be wrong. So do I.

Now you've done it!
Don't you know, you're not supposed to express your belief!?

 

[Dirtebiker]

Gender identity has zero to do with sexual orientation.

Since you've asked others, are YOU a doctor/scientist? And if so, why are YOU right and others are wrong?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Show me the abuse here...

Part 1: Transgender in Cincinnati

The second we hit the "Intervention" chapter. If the boy wants to like girl things, let him. Then, when he gets older, let him make big decisions on his own. But he's far too young to decide he's a woman, and start getting "intervention" from doctors.

 

[Dirtebiker]

But you have a male organ

Thanks for noticing?!

 

[Snapdragon]

Since you've asked others, are YOU a doctor/scientist? And if so, why are YOU right and others are wrong?

I am neither, but I have extensive personal and professional experience with this issue. My statements are backed up by scientific evidence rather than fear/ignorance/hatred/paranoia.

 

[JollyMon]

Right. When you look at the parents of these kids, it becomes very obvious that the kid didn't make the decision on his or her own. It's child abuse. They're using their kids as political tools and doing some serious harm in the process.

I disagree with this statement. We had a person in our high school that that had gender identity issue and her parents were not using her as political tools are all. The parents never forced her to be one way or another and they accepted who she was. She made the decision not her parents.

So if the "kid" made the decision, you would be okay with it then?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I disagree with this statement. We had a person in our high school that that had gender identity issue and her parents were not using her as political tools are all. The parents never forced her to be one way or another and they accepted who she was. She made the decision not her parents.

So if the "kid" made the decision, you would be okay with it then?

Not when they're that young. I don't think they're capable of knowing things as complex as gender identity issues without some sort of influence.

 

[chezuki]

Not when they're that young. I don't think they're capable of knowing things as complex as gender identity issues without some sort of influence.

Were you sure of your gender identity at that age?

 

[Redtbird]

Not when they're that young. I don't think they're capable of knowing things as complex as gender identity issues without some sort of influence.

The "kid" was high school age.

When would a person be "...capable of knowing things as complex as gender identity issues..."?

Age 20? 30? 40? 50? When?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Were you sure of your gender identity at that age?

I was too busy playing games and living life. The concept of "gender identity" hadn't become mainstream enough for me to know yet (Tumblr didn't exist yet)

 

[17 squirrel]

I am neither, but I have extensive personal and professional experience with this issue. My statements are backed up by scientific evidence rather than fear/ignorance/hatred/paranoia.

Evidence is not fact, it is still someone's opinion. You have a stronger opinion because its a topic that's personal to you. That still does not make it true.
The exact cause of gender dysphoria is still unclear.
It was traditionally thought to be a psychiatric condition, with its causes believed to originate in the mind.
However, more recent research suggests the condition may actually be the result of the abnormal development of a baby while it is in the womb, possibly as a result of genetic or hormonal factors, which causes the brain to develop a gender identity that is different to the baby's sexual organs.

 

[CathyInBlue]

When did you come into your concrete knowledge that you were masculine and identified with the boys and not feminine like the girls?

When did you see the ways boys play and decided that you liked and wanted to do that too?

WHen did you see the ways girls play and decided that you didn't like that and wanted nothing to do with it?