If you saw this guy, would you shoot him?

[yepthatsme]

I can almost assure you the officer's decision to open fire was based on this:

[video=youtube;L6z8q4lOrDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6z8q4lOrDU[/video]

That was another video that was hard to watch. I'm just glad that I don't have to make the hard decisions that cops have to make in situations like this.

 

[Expat]

Well did that guy get caught and did the cop live?

As I recall, yes he was caught, no the officer was dead.

 

[churchmouse]

That was another video that was hard to watch. I'm just glad that I don't have to make the hard decisions that cops have to make in situations like this.

It is so hard to watch and set any judgement. Not there, adrenaline not at peak.....fear not a factor. Just damned hard to really know what you would do.

 

[Expat]

It is so hard to watch and set any judgement. Not there, adrenaline not at peak.....fear not a factor. Just damned hard to really know what you would do.

In the second video, I thought when he was dancing around on the roadway would have been an excellent time to taze him.

 

[churchmouse]

I just watched to 2nd video again. I would have taken some positive action long before he got back to the truck. When he charged it most likely would have at least gotten physical.

 

[scoutsniper]

I can almost assure you the officer's decision to open fire was based on this:

[video=youtube;L6z8q4lOrDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6z8q4lOrDU[/video]

god rest his soul. but what the F#$% are they teaching for police shooting courses? maybe im a *******/bias cuz im military but sweet jesus he couldnt hit a thing.

 

[Bandsaw]

As the second shooting occurred in 1998, it is possible the officer didn't have access to a taser. In that case waiting and issuing too many warnings cost a 22 year old deputy his life. The first case is pretty tough. Knowing in advance it is a cane, it is pretty easy to tell it is. I am not so sure it would be that easy if we were in the officer's shoes. Also the fact of the matter is, a traffic stop is a different circumstance than encountering someone in a parking lot. The problem is a mistake either way could cost someone his life.

 

[45fan]

Murder of Kyle Dinkheller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The second video the officer did not survive.

As for the first, yes, I think the officer did jump the gun. The problem is, if he hadn't, and things were what the officer initially what they were, we would have likely been reading about his death too. For some reason, it has become common place for people to shoot police officers on the side of the road. Being a little bit edgy approaching a vehicle, at night, and from out of state is very understandable.

Mistakes happen, happen all the time. Doesnt make it right, but sometimes its just that, a mistake. There wasnt any malicious intent that I could see from the officer. He made a snap decision to shoot, and he did. I know many have said there was a time that we didnt have to worry about being shot for getting out of your vehicle without orders to do so in a traffic stop, but we have to remember that there was also a time when police didnt have to worry about being shot by people getting out of their vehicles during those same traffic stops.

Fortunately for both parties involved in the first incident the officer wanst a very good shot, and the citizen has a strong constitution. Hopefully they will both recover from this, and be able to have normal lives.

 

[Mark 1911]

Wow. That's a hard call. Maybe the cop was too quick on the trigger, hard to say what I would do in that position. And the man who was stopped, why did he get out of his truck? Never get out of the vehicle during a traffic stop unless asked to do so, never.

 

[steveh_131]

For some reason, it has become common place for people to shoot police officers on the side of the road.

Source? Just how 'common place' is it?

Being a little bit edgy approaching a vehicle, at night, and from out of state is very understandable.

This is an excellent reason to stop approaching strange vehicles at night or any other occasion unless you have a darn good reason.

 

[GunSlinger]

I can't speak to this from a LEO standpoint because I'm not one...never have been. From my perspective only as being the old guy I would:

1. Never have gotten out of the truck.
2. Never reached back into the truck for a long tubular object.
3. Want to meet with the LEO to let him know I wouldn't hold it against him. Encourage him to forgive himself and go on with his life.
4. Hire an attorney to draft an agreement that would hold the LE agency liable for all medical expenses both now and in the future, and I'd also like a new truck of my choice paid for by the LE agency, attorney fees, and would not sign a waiver of future LE agency liability.

That's just me...YMMV.

 

[TaunTaun]

I can almost assure you the officer's decision to open fire was based on this:

[video=youtube;L6z8q4lOrDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6z8q4lOrDU[/video]

Wow is all I can say. Disturbing part is the screams of the officer and then listening to his death rattle at the end, breathing in his own blood...

 

[rvb]

Nothing was leveled at the LEO

as aweful situation, for sure. right at 0:15 as he grabs the cane from the truck and swings it over the side, it does appear to point right at the officer/camera. I could see that from the officer's perspective if you didn't know it was a cane, then whatever it is WAS being pointed your direction. It was right at that point the shots were fired. ..

-rvb

 

[Kirk Freeman]

That's where that Boston T. Party crap of hopping out of the car will get you, shot to pieces and the poooooleeeece will shoot you to pieces legally with magical qualified immunity bullets.

Stay in the car, stop reading Boston T. Party's wookie-suiter nonsense.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I can almost assure you the officer's decision to open fire was based on this:

[video=youtube;L6z8q4lOrDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6z8q4lOrDU[/video]

Couldnt have been because of that video, that cop told him to put the gun down for almost one full minute

 

[Hogwylde]

Are you asking about the guy in the truck or the cop?

 

[rambone]

I can almost assure you the officer's decision to open fire was based on this:

Maybe. Do you think it is appropriate to be thinking about a murder from 1998 every time you stop a pickup truck? At what point does it become unhealthy? At what point does it turn into a dangerous obsession?

It seems like this kind of fear-based training creates a lot of opportunities for innocents to be shot. Hundreds of thousands of cops are being shown these videos in training and being taught that overreactions are better than underreactions. Shoot first, so you don't end up as another notch in grandpa's walking stick.

It doesn't matter that the motorist showed zero attitude, zero malice, zero aggression. Absolutely no indication that he was an enemy. But, one false move and the paranoid cop lights him up. And this is considered to be "operating as trained" according to officials. A standard (over)reaction. A-OK.

Maybe this kind of mentality keeps cops safe in that incredibly rare Dinkheller scenario. In that case they can be sure to get the first shot off when the guy starts dancing. But for the vast majority of other scenarios, nervous aggression from the cops endangers innocent lives. And frankly, it teaches the public that cops -- the nicest, best trained cops -- are taught to be so on edge that one sneeze will scare them into opening fire.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It doesn't matter that the motorist showed zero attitude, zero malice, zero aggression. Absolutely no indication that he was an enemy.

You mean other than disobeying the orders of the officer? You mean other than pointing an object, which looks like a shotgun, at the officer after disobeying the officers instructions? Yeah, other than those indications, there were no indications.

Are not the police allowed the right of self-defense?

What if the man that shot him was not the police?

 

[45fan]

Source? Just how 'common place' is it?

Evidently you have been living under a rock for the last 20 or so years. Perhaps the news is just better at covering this sort of thing now, but I doubt it.
List of American police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Perhaps this is a good place to start. I am sure that this is not a complete list, and only includes those that actually died as a result, but shooting police is quite a bit more common in todays society than it was 30-40 years ago.

This is an excellent reason to stop approaching strange vehicles at night or any other occasion unless you have a darn good reason.

Sounds like a pretty good summary of a traffic cops JOB. From your response, I would assume that you have not progressed in life beyond "would you like fries with that?", or have a serious issue with police. Perhaps you would prefer that police just let everyone go, and do as they please. While I can understand the butthurt you might receive over a speeding ticket or a DUI, the police are there for a reason, and at the very least making sure anything suspicious is only that, and not a murderer or bank robber on the lamb.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Why didnt the officer keep shooting when the bad guy refused to drop the gun?