If the republican primary were today, who would you vote for?

[ArcadiaGP]

Trump today: "We will have so much winning if I get elected, that you may get bored with winning"

Obama, before: "If I get elected the rise of the oceans will begin to slow and our planet will begin to heal"

Indistinguishable. They are the same person.

 

[IndyDave1776]

This is why the GOP establishment is so out of touch and will continue to lose presidential elections. They actually THINK Americans want another Bush in the White House.

No, they are just well aware that (well, until Trump jumped in) they could shove Jeb down our throats, condescendingly tell us that 'maybe next time' we might get a real candidate, just like they did last time and the time before that. It really does make a person want to explain reality to them with each word of the explanation punctuated by a blow from a pick handle to the head.

Trump today: "We will have so much winning if I get elected, that you may get bored with winning"

Obama, before: "If I get elected the rise of the oceans will begin to slow and our planet will begin to heal"

Indistinguishable. They are the same person.

They may have used similar rhetorical devices, but it seems to me that a promise to be a dictatorial green freak in addition to being a socialist/communist is far different from the promise of negotiating trade agreements that actually offer us something of value, making the country a suitable place for industry, and reforming immigration policy in a way that benefits the country rather than benefiting foreign nationals at our expense.

 

[bwframe]

Fer the Trump haters:

Donald Trump to CNN: Donate the profits from your debate - Sep. 9, 2015

 

[Gunner72]

Paul or Cruz

 

[Super Bee]

Donald Trump to CNN: Donate the profits from your debate - Sep. 9, 2015

Good idea, send the profits to veterans groups. . . Did he send a letter like this to FOX for the first debate?

 

[bwframe]

Good idea, send the profits to veterans groups. . . Did he send a letter like this to FOX for the first debate?

The results from the Fox debate are what have dictated this (some are saying genius,) PR move by Trump.
He is playing on the known fact that people are only watching the debate to see what he will say.

 

[mrjarrell]

So, what do actual conservatives think of Trump? Not much.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/09/09/the-conservative-anti-trump-club

 

[Stickfight]

From that Reason article:

Whatever Trump's appeal is to the Right's populist elements, it isn't policy. He is a tax-happy crony capitalist who is hostile to free trade but very enthusiastic about using state violence to homejack private citizen

But that is exactly what the modern right wants in its politicians. Use government power against those they don't like, no matter the cost to pockets or liberty. Reagan is their hero, how could they not support a guy like Trump?

 

[Libertarian01]

From that Reason article:

But that is exactly what the modern right wants in its politicians. Use government power against those they don't like, no matter the cost to pockets or liberty. Reagan is their hero, how could they not support a guy like Trump?

This ^^^ is what some of the modern right wants. The modern republican party is being pulled apart, and I believe this is for good reasons and a very positive thing. I do not attack the republicans on this, just observing.

I see part of the problem within the republican party is that its members are thinking more, they aren't just pushing the "R" button like their parents or grandparents. The problem the republican party as a political machine is having is trying to hold on to divergent groups (yes, the divergents are evil .) I am one (1) of those divergents. I am strongly fiscally conservative, but very socially liberal. In the simplest terms I believe in small government, less taxes, and big brother staying out of social issues - for real! I am not by any means a purest, but I do lean strongly that way. The Libertarian party has been my new home for sometime now. I jumped ship awhile back.

Other people who have for years self-identified as republicans find my party unpalatable yet they find their current republican party less palatable as time goes on. These people are somewhat stuck on trying to figure out where they want to go or to stick around and remain republican "just so the damn dems can't win." Yet their support of their own party is lukewarm at best.

Finally, there is another group that is almost all republican and that is fundamentalist Christians. Not all by any stretch, but a large majority. They feel their party is abandoning them and they are correct with some socially moderate republicans in power. Yet, they have nowhere else to go. These people are truly cornered politically. The Libertarian party is way too socially tolerant for them, as is the Democratic party. Their only other real choice is possibly(?) the Constitutional Law Party, yet that has less name recognition and power than the Libertarians. These fundamentalist Christians see little hope for their future. Not only are they losing ground in society but within their own party as well. The only thing that gives them much power is their strength as a voting block that even moderate republican politicians must take into consideration. This is putting pressure on the republican party machine.

The Democratic party is, and tries to be, a "big tent" party, including many folks. They succeed at this due to the nature of that tolerance. The Republican party is a "small tent" that requires somewhat "conservative" ideals somewhere in the memberships makeup. The problem is that conservative values are becoming more defined and less strong.

I believe that for the Republican Party to remain of force of political power over the next generation or two it is going to need to make some fundamental changes to its core beliefs, back them up with a meaningful push in legislation, and strongly market their re-branding efforts. I do not believe they can maintain their power by trying to hold onto the current status quo of using the fundamentalist Christians as their absolute base.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong in my assessment. Time will prove my observations correct or in error.

Regards,

Doug

 

[jamil]

So, what do actual conservatives think of Trump? Not much.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/09/09/the-conservative-anti-trump-club

yeah, because the conservatives who support trump aren't like, actual conservatives, they're like, fake ones.

 

[Libertarian01]

yeah, because the conservatives who support trump aren't like, actual conservatives, they're like, fake ones.

Purist!!!

 

[bwframe]

yeah, because the conservatives who support trump aren't like, actual conservatives, they're like, fake ones.

There sure are a lot non-conservatives supposedly speaking for conservatives in this forum, eh?

 

[mrjarrell]

yeah, because the conservatives who support trump aren't like, actual conservatives, they're like, fake ones.

They're populist know nothings on their best day. They're impressed by an empty suit. Are you positing that the people quoted in the article aren't actual conservatives? I'd say you're wrong, again.

 

[jamil]

They're populist know nothings on their best day. They're impressed by an empty suit. Are you positing that the people quoted in the article aren't actual conservatives? I'd say you're wrong, again.

Jeez. I hate explaining sarcasm. Okay, here goes. Words mean stuff. Saying "actual" conservatives implies the conservatives who support trump aren't real conservatives. That particular judgement coming from a progressive libertarian seems a bit dubious.

People get to back the politicians they want. I don't back Trump, and honestly, I was at a loss why Trump appeals to so many people. Some INGOers here who support trump have helped me understand their reasoning a lot better at least. Though I don't agree, it's their choice to make and insulting them won't make them not support Trump. Throwing names like George Will and Carl Rove at them won't move the needle. It's not like people to the right of those guys are going to respect their opinions anyway.

 

[IndyDave1776]

They're populist know nothings on their best day. They're impressed by an empty suit. Are you positing that the people quoted in the article aren't actual conservatives? I'd say you're wrong, again.

Come on. You're brighter than this. While Trump may be new to politics in the sense of being a candidate, he is far from an empty suit, unlike a certain Kenyan who suddenly popped up out of the cracks in the concrete about whom no one knew anything other than what he chose to tell us. I will grant you that Trump may not meet admission standards for the John Birch society, but I will measure him taking a cue from Ayn Rand. His self-interest as he perceives it rests on the strength of the United States, not on weakening it or sabotaging it. In that, his self-interest and mine are very much parallel. Had he not entered the race, the RNC would have shoved Jeb down our throats so that we could continue over the cliff only under different management doing more of the same. While there are a couple of candidates I would prefer over Trump, there is no question that they never would have made past the primary. Even if Trump represents the worst qualities some people assign to him, he is still better than the alternative. That is an unfortunate truth, but nevertheless the truth.

When one considers the possibility of a lasting alliance with Cruz, the door is opened to significant possibilities. In any event, I would rather wait and see where there is at least a possibility of improvement than jump on the bandwagon which guarantees me more of the SSDD.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Come on. You're brighter than this. While Trump may be new to politics in the sense of being a candidate, he is far from an empty suit, unlike a certain Kenyan who suddenly popped up out of the cracks in the concrete about whom no one knew anything other than what he chose to tell us. I will grant you that Trump may not meet admission standards for the John Birch society, but I will measure him taking a cue from Ayn Rand. His self-interest as he perceives it rests on the strength of the United States, not on weakening it or sabotaging it. In that, his self-interest and mine are very much parallel. Had he not entered the race, the RNC would have shoved Jeb down our throats so that we could continue over the cliff only under different management doing more of the same. While there are a couple of candidates I would prefer over Trump, there is no question that they never would have made past the primary. Even if Trump represents the worst qualities some people assign to him, he is still better than the alternative. That is an unfortunate truth, but nevertheless the truth.

When one considers the possibility of a lasting alliance with Cruz, the door is opened to significant possibilities. In any event, I would rather wait and see where there is at least a possibility of improvement than jump on the bandwagon which guarantees me more of the SSDD.

^^^^^He has a point. Call Trump what you will. I have to agree, had he not entered the fray, the run up so far would have been much like we're used to--some actual decent conservatives eating one anothers' lunches and a good ole establishment candidate there at the end to face the democrats.

 

[Libertarian01]

One idea did pop into my head the other day that I think I would like about Trump (it also scares me a bit.)

That being that IF Mr. Trump were elected to the White House he would go in presuming he was in charge! When President Obama was elected there was some story about whether or not he would be "allowed" to keep his own blackberry. He didn't. He could have, but he caved to the secret service worrying about security. I also presume that many others who come from political backgrounds take for granted a loss of control, and that is a shame. They ALL wind up living in a bubble surrounded by sycophants, losing what little touch they have with the outside world.

I don't think that will happen with Mr. Trump. I do believe that he would listen to their concerns but wouldn't be kowtowed as many long term politicians may as they would expect to lose control. With Mr. Trump I believe it will be somewhat the opposite. He will expect them to do what the hell he wants as he IS the head of the Executive branch. I find this thought somewhat refreshing, and also scary depending upon what he wants to do, but overall I believe it would be a good thing to let the bureaucracy know they are NOT in charge, the boss is the boss!

Regards,

Doug

 

[IndyDave1776]

Doug, excellent point. It would be most refreshing to have a break from the tail wagging the dog.

 

[jamil]

The only thing I like about trump is that he seems to be immune to mob shaming. As to one of the points made I tend to think he's been surrounded by sycophants his entire life.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Carson pulls nearly even with Trump in Times/CBS News poll