If any LEOs in here, what do you recommend for .223 home defense?

[Robjps]

I have no personal experience, but I know some recommend Frangible ammo for home defense. Less chance of over penetration.

Frangible ammo is designed to turn to dust when it hits something hard like ar500 steel. If it doesn't its harder then lead. It is used to make shooting steel at close ranges safe where normal ammo will ricochet and be dangerous.

So unless your walls are made of ar500 steel that advise is well the opposite of what you were suggesting.

 

[Psode27]

Good thread! And good replies! Not LEO either, but I'm a big fan of my 870 with #4 or 00. I think in most situations I'd rather have that than my AR (in my house anyway).

 

[jgreiner]

I'd never choose an AR for home defense, unless I was trying to stave them off 300 yards away from the house.

I'd go with a 12 gauge, pump action shotgun. You can load 2 different scenarios.

Scenario #1: The first 2 rounds could/would be deer slugs. The remaining rounds would be #4 lead shot rounds.

Scenario #2: All rounds loaded could/would be #4 lead shot.

In the first scenario, you eject the slugs if you don't need them, and all the action is going to be up close and personal.

Some will say load 00 buck shot. The only problem with this is that you can get wall penetration with 00 buck shot, especially in newer homes.

Personally, I'd choose scenario #1.

The other thing I would highly suggest is to add some type of gun mounted shooting light to your shotgun. You MUST be able to identify your target BEFORE you shoot.

The problem with not ENOUGH penetration is that the vitals aren't reached, and your perp doesn't go down. AS the Box o Truth said:

Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

 

[jgreiner]

Good thread! And good replies! Not LEO either, but I'm a big fan of my 870 with #4 or 00. I think in most situations I'd rather have that than my AR (in my house anyway).

Go with 00.

 

[Ryno300]

Your sarcasm aside, chezuki's response to your original message was correct.

You made a great point about having a light mounted on your long gun, though, so good on that.

To the original poster ... I'm also not an LEO, and it's your business if you only want input from cops, so feel free to ignore me.

Here is my opinion:

• ARs are a fantastic choice for home defense, especially with short barrel and suppressor
• Every modern test I've seen of shooting 5.56x45mm/.223 through common building materials shows that the projectiles penetrate less than do most common handgun rounds as well as buckshot. This can be a good thing, but it's also a problem if you have a need to shoot through intermediate barriers to solve your problem.
• A 40gr projectile designed to expand violently is not a great choice for personal defense because by its design penetration will be very limited. I'm not sure what it would do in building materials compared to a 77 gr OTM 5.56 load, but unintentional penetration of obstacles is secondary to your primary concern, which is stopping the threat.
• At close distances, there isn't going to be a huge difference in the wounding capability of any of the rounds that are designed for defense or military use. As long as the projectile can fragment and you're close enough that it hits at a speed that is likely to result in the bullet yawing shortly after impact and then fragmenting, you're going to produce a huge and typically devastating wound.
• I keep two loads (depending on the rifle) for potential defensive use. One is M193 spec 5.56x45mm 55gr FMJ and the other is 68 gr OTM Black Hills load. I understand the limitations and strengths of each to the extent that one can predict performance with so many random factors involved.
• Were I equipping myself today, I would standardize on either 75 gr Hornady TAP or something substantially similar. The prime reason is that it will do what the M193 or 68gr OTM bullets will do (i.e. yaw and fragment after and still penetrate adequately), but it will do it at a lower speed at impact, which extends the useful range if you really need it. It will also penetrate a little better through intermediate barriers when you need to do that.

+1. Always appreciate your well thought out responses.

 

[rhino]

+1. Always appreciate your well thought out responses.

Thank you, and I'm glad to help when I can!