I was ALMOST robbed today!

[jbrooks19]

I was not expecting any of the content of that video, that officers cry's for mercy will NEVER leave my mind. Anyone who can watch that video and not be bothered by it needs a serious psych evaluation.

 

[AXE835]

First this:Hickman in the years I have lived around(alot of my famly are LEO's/Mil),carried,and trained with firearms (including military and LE) no amount of training will prepair you for any or all situations,a good trainer will tell you that. Use your training to help you win the situation. In my yearly in-service,requals,and FTO training: "NOT ALL SITUATIONS ARE THE SAME" you must also use your most powerful weapon your mind.The one thing I have learned over time,there is a differance between a patch/pin wearer and someone that knows what they are doing. No one was hurt in this situation everyone went home done deal. I'm now turning off my computer this thread has gone to the dogs.

 

[Que]

I was not expecting any of the content of that video, that officers cry's for mercy will NEVER leave my mind. Anyone who can watch that video and not be bothered by it needs a serious psych evaluation.

People scream when they are shot. When someone is shot, all the bravado that is projected online goes out the window. As mentioned throughout this thread, maybe that is something we all need to consider as we carry guns, necessitating our understanding of the law and also the phycological effects upon someone having to shoot another person.

That said, would you now choose to act in the same manner, after seeing this video? It really doesn't matter if you would or not, but consider what has been written in this thread and really ask yourself if you could shoot someone in defense of your life, even knowing they may scream for mercy.

Also, I'm not making light of the fact that an officer was killed. My heart goes out to his family. On the other hand, I watched that video and tried to determine what I could have done differently if in that officer's place. I asked several questions about what went wrong. Believe me, there were probably hundreds of LE departments using that very same video for training.

Lastly, I don't believe I need a psychological evaluation, but I could be wrong.

 

[Dirtebiker]

I'm not going to read this whole thread to see what has been said, but just scanning it I've not seen anyone post anything that breaks the rules in any way; however, I may be wrong. If you don't like this thread, just stop reading and posting in it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW_xaTf5oqI


I said that i didn't appreciate the language in this video, and questioned if it was appropriate. You tell me.

 

[Que]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW_xaTf5oqI


I said that i didn't appreciate the language in this video, and questioned if it was appropriate. You tell me.

I'm not wasting 9 minutes on this. Can you direct me to the area you find offensive?

 

[Fargo]

I was not expecting any of the content of that video, that officers cry's for mercy will NEVER leave my mind. Anyone who can watch that video and not be bothered by it needs a serious psych evaluation.

So when I said "horrifying tragedy" and "murder" you didn't expect to see a horrifying tragedy or murder?

The officer in that video had recently been departmentally disciplined for being too quick to use force. It is speculated, and I do say speculated, that had something to do with his unwillingness to use it here.

It was horrible, it was tragic, and it was murder. But that is what we are talking about here, specifically how to avoid it.

I agree, Fargo used a tragedy to try prove his point.

That vid is terribly disturbing the first time you are exposed to it. As Que mentioned, it has been posted a few times before.

That is the biggest load of bull**** I have ever seen. You asked for an example and now you are going to complain that it was a little more real than you would have liked?

Or maybe it makes you a little uncomfortable with all your presuppositions about how such things happen and how you would react? It should.

It should make you uncomfortable, it scares the **** out of me every time I think about it. But that doesn't mean I pretend it didn't happen and it doesn't mean that I ignore the very real reality of what happens if you carry a gun but are too handwringing to use it.

If you are going to carry a weapon, you damn well better be able to handle the kind of stuff that happened there. It is what you have signed up to potentially be a part of.

Joe

 

[mtgasten]

That vid is terribly disturbing the first time you are exposed to it. As Que mentioned, it has been posted a few times before.

very disturbing indeed, makes me almost sick to my stomach to watch, my prayers go out to his family

 

[bwframe]

So when I said "horrifying tragedy" and "murder" you didn't expect to see a horrifying tragedy or murder?

The officer in that video had recently been departmentally disciplined for being too quick to use force. It is speculated, and I do say speculated, that had something to do with his unwillingness to use it here.

It was horrible, it was tragic, and it was murder. But that is what we are talking about here, specifically how to avoid it.

That is the biggest load of bull**** I have ever seen. You asked for an example and now you are going to complain that it was a little more real than you would have liked?

Or maybe it makes you a little uncomfortable with all your presuppositions about how such things happen and how you would react? It should.

It should make you uncomfortable, it scares the **** out of me every time I think about it. But that doesn't mean I pretend it didn't happen and it doesn't mean that I ignore the very real reality of what happens if you carry a gun but are too handwringing to use it.

If you are going to carry a weapon, you damn well better be able to handle the kind of stuff that happened there. It is what you have signed up to potentially be a part of.

Blah, blah, blah...
The vid had nothing to do with the point you were attempting to back up:
Originally Posted by Fargo
Consider the alternative: "You can be so scared of having to retain a lawyer that you end up being robbed/raped/killed because you were so hung up about it that you never got around to defending yourself."

I've seen the vid numerous times. I could care less about seeing it again. However, the content has nothing to do with this discussion. You posted it for shock value.

Has this ever happened?

To someone that isn't law enforcement?

So I guess I'll take that as a no...

 

[Dirtebiker]

I'm not wasting 9 minutes on this. Can you direct me to the area you find offensive?

It's at about 5:20. I quit watching at that point. I don't care to have my family hear that kind of language while I'm on INGO. Just my opinion!




But then again, according to Hickman, I should just " grow up, and pull up my big girl panties" because that's how " military, Leo, and many Americans" speak!

 

[HICKMAN]

First this:Hickman in the years I have lived around(alot of my famly are LEO's/Mil),carried,and trained with firearms (including military and LE) no amount of training will prepair you for any or all situations

you go that right, but some training is better than no training, and more training is better than some training.

I thought when I get out of the Army, "I didn't need any training... I was in the friggin Army"

But rules and situations are different our here. Never saw the need for FoF training until I was enjoying some po-boys at Papa Roux with some fellow INGOers and they enlightened me to how useful it is.

I realized after that class that I didn't know NEARLY enough about our gun laws. Like BWFRAME said, you can be 100% in the right... and lose your house in court proving it.

Combat vets have to be even more careful, becaues I could see some d-bag lawyer playing up the whole "trigger happy warfighter" garbage.

 

[HICKMAN]

On the other hand, I watched that video and tried to determine what I could have done differently if in that officer's place. I asked several questions about what went wrong. Believe me, there were probably hundreds of LE departments using that very same video for training.

I did the exact same thing. Sadly, the officer was so distressed that he basically just sprayed rounds at the perp. We saw bullets shatter windows around him, but just one split second to put the front sight were it needed to be... he might still be alive.

 

[Fargo]

Blah, blah, blah...
The vid had nothing to do with the point you were attempting to back up:
Originally Posted by Fargo
Consider the alternative: "You can be so scared of having to retain a lawyer that you end up being robbed/raped/killed because you were so hung up about it that you never got around to defending yourself."

I've seen the vid numerous times. I could care less about seeing it again. However, the content has nothing to do with this discussion. You posted it for shock value.

I can honestly say that is the most snivelly answer I have ever seen on INGO. Not a single bit of rational thought or argument, just a pure ad hominem based upon your wild guess as to my motives. Congrats, you just officially entered my list of posters not worth the time of trying to have an adult conversation with.

Let me get this straight, a cop who has just been disciplined for being to quick to unholster instead decides to go less-lethal (baton) when a deranged suspect charges him. Then, when the supect produces a gun, he waits until being shot at to return fire and is killed. That sounds nothing like anything we've discussed in this thread.

I guess for you to pull your head out of the sand it would have to be a "CCW guy who uses non-lethal (OC) when a robber charges him who then doesn't have time to draw before the "unarmed" robber gets to him, takes his gun and kills him with it" before it would be a valid example?

So I guess I'll take that as a no...

No, you got your example and you don't like it so now you want to narrow the search criteria from "guys who carry guns" to "guys who carry guns but don't have a badge". Whats next, only examples on tuesdays by guys carrying glocks?

There are plenty of such examples, but you can find them for yourself. I don't waste my time trying to have adult discussions with people who can't discuss like adults. See the part about the list above.

Joe

 

[oldschoolevo]

glad you both are ok

first off glade you both are ok 2 im oldschool so i will protect 3 but i will always try to talk my way out first and last option is pull. but you have to be there to make that call, glad everyone is ok

 

[68_F100]

 

[bwframe]

I can honestly say that is the most snivelly answer I have ever seen on INGO...
...There are plenty of such examples, but you can find them for yourself. I don't waste my time trying to have adult discussions...

^^^ There you go. Separated the wheat from the chaff for you.

I'm sorry you don't care for responses that you don't have answers for.

The video about a cop with whatever speculation attached has nothing to do with private individual's self defense and their knowlege of legal or civil repercussions.

You might want to consider your avatar when waiving that "adult conversation" flag so boldly. I will hold you to your word though and will miss our lively banter, seeing as how I'm not an adult like you and Bart Simpson.

 

[calcot7]

Robbery

Better question: Also, why didn't you physically get in your car, and call the cops then? You said you were about to. Drawing was always taught to me as the last possible route before death, and I would have handed him everything except the gun that is my lifeline, while attempting to gather as many details as possible. He leaves with his swag, I leave with my life. Go back in the gas station call 911 with the description of my car, name, license, car contents, etc. I think we needed the expanded version.

Seriously though, Glad you are ok. Just trying to gain insight.

Are you going to hand over your gun to the bad guy as well?

 

[jeremy]

sure it does in this case, MIL scenario training is much different than civilian scenario training.

Don't think you are going to see bank, supermarket parking lot, gas station or McD's drive up at MOUT

I have trained at Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Blackwater, and Saurez. Does that make my statement that Force on Force Training is a low Stress Training Event more or less creditable for you. Yes I have a LOT of .Mil Training even some from Non-US Forces, but I have tried to maintain the same amount of Civilian Training as well.

By the way we are starting to see more variety and realistic obstacles in the MOUT Courses around the Country. With MUTC (Muscatatuck Urban Training Center) being a boon to the States NG Forces...

 

[billmyn]

Better question: Also, why didn't you physically get in your car, and call the cops then? You said you were about to. Drawing was always taught to me as the last possible route before death, and I would have handed him everything except the gun that is my lifeline, while attempting to gather as many details as possible. He leaves with his swag, I leave with my life. Go back in the gas station call 911 with the description of my car, name, license, car contents, etc. I think we needed the expanded version.

Seriously though, Glad you are ok. Just trying to gain insight.

would you actually turn your back on attacker in hopes he is bluffing or you can get in the car before he clubs , knives , or shoots you . know you are armed and hopefully trained to defend yourself . thats what you do , good job op.

 

[HICKMAN]

Does that make my statement that Force on Force Training is a low Stress Training Event more or less creditable for you.

ease up sarge, was just crackin on ya

good to see you got training on both sides

 

[Rookie]

Has anyone mentioned the threat of speed goats? I might have missed it.