How to freeze proof an above ground cistern in a shed?

[nate1865]

Why do you not want to bury it?

Well, I may not be able to given I only have 3' of soil where it would be located, and then there's rock. Lots of rock. So, it may be $$ to blast through. But yes, burying it would be nice, just not sure how feasible it will be.

 

[jeremy]

This was my idea earlier in the thread. I have seen farmers keep a pump shed warm with a couple of floods.

Hell you can keep a small room warm with a 60 watt bulb...

 

[churchmouse]

Hell you can keep a small room warm with a 60 watt bulb...

Properly sealed up and amply insulated you can keep an area warm enough to prevent freeze up this way. Not costly at all. You can rig an outdoor stat to turn the light on at a given temp. Super simple.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I'm thinking at least 2500 gallons which is 95" W X 91" H.

The shed would be a 10X10 structure.

I like the aerator idea too!

Where would one find a LARGE tank aerator?

MarineDepot.com has a great selection of everything, and solid customer service.

Drs. Foster & Smith also has a selection, but from experience, their customer service is a hassle if there's anything wrong with it.

 

[nate1865]

I will have power to the shed, for both the shallow well pump and any accessories needed.

 

[showpare]

How about gutter heat tape wrapped around the tank with a couple water heater blankets wrapped around that.



Easy Heat 240' 1200 Watts 120 V Roof/gutter Deicer Cable - Amazon.com


Thermwell SP57-11C Water Heater Blanket Fits Up to 60 gallon Tank - Amazon.com

 

[Iroquois]

FYI water absorbs heat six times faster than air so you'd really have to insulate the tank itself
to use a tank heater. Build the shed with 2 x 6 frame and buy a real house door that's insulated.
Insulate the shed with 6" fiberglass and line it inside with a foil backed foam board.
Keep the tank out of contact with the ground...there's been several good ideas here.
I wouldn't heat with lamps unless you can check it a lot. Bulbs go out at the worst
times and you can't afford a long wait to change them.
A small baseboard heater would be more reliable and not real expensive. Run it with a
thermostat at 40-45° f...
BTW I kept a gallon jug in my car all winter and it never froze. The case of pints froze solid.
Just saying '...

 

[csaws]

You could add vodka to the tank every so often.

 

[J man]

Well, I may not be able to given I only have 3' of soil where it would be located, and then there's rock. Lots of rock. So, it may be $$ to blast through. But yes, burying it would be nice, just not sure how feasible it will be.

I was thinking that the cost to rent a backhoe for the weekend might be cheaper than doing all the work to concrete it and insulate and run lamps. Plus you would not be taking up space in a building that could be used for other things. I guess the rock issue would not make that fun.

 

[churchmouse]

You could add vodka to the tank every so often.

Then you have the issue of one for the tank, one for me.....one for the tank and two for me and so on.

 

[Endo151]

If you will have a shallow well pump you may be able to just insulate the tank and then pump in water occasionally to keep the temperature up. Insulate the lines to the tank and exiting to prevent freezing. The incoming water temp would be 52 or so. Have to weigh the cost of pumping versus btu demand to heat. Or find a happy medium.

 

[LEaSH]

Well, I may not be able to given I only have 3' of soil where it would be located, and then there's rock. Lots of rock. So, it may be $$ to blast through. But yes, burying it would be nice, just not sure how feasible it will be.

If you can get the base of it 3' under the surface you can run a 12v bilge pump to keep it circulating. Have it enclosed or stack straw bale around it if you are concerned with wind chill.

 

[churchmouse]

If you can get the base of it 3' under the surface you can run a 12v bilge pump to keep it circulating. Have it enclosed or stack straw bale around it if you are concerned with wind chill.

This is better idea than an aerator.

 

[ClydeB]

If you are keeping it above ground I would definitely insulate underneath the water container, keep it from direct contact with the concrete, and do the straw bales around it. At least keep the wind off the container.

As to keep it warm / not frozen in the winter? Two ideas come to mind.

1. Passive solar heat exchanger. Really depends on how much sun you get. Use the roof to hold the panel, use a small pump to circulate the water through the panel and into your tank. Examples of how that would work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=JRvxHA4AQbc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP8H5IOTwYU&feature=related

2. Wood fired / rocket stove heat exchanger. Same principle only you use wood as the heat source. Use the water tank as a heat sink, heat that thing up inside its insulated building. Have a temperature probe and if / when that thing gets cold. Fire up the stove and pump.

 

[churchmouse]

There is also the pop can solar device mentioned in this forum. It would be really cheap to build and run.

 

[nate1865]

I like the soda can solar heater.


Unfortunately solar is probably not a very good option for me - lots of tall trees restricting sunlight. I'd also be concerned if a limb were to fall on it.

 

[Newbomb92]

Safe is a relative term....

 

[RandomName]

We always used heat lamps like you use for brooding chickens to keep the pump house from freezing. It was about 10x10, had the pump and the canister, plus various canned goods, seed potatoes for the next year, etc. We used two and never had anything freeze.

The pump house was 2x6 walls, 6x6 corners, with insulation between every stud and chipboard (OSB I think is the right name for it) for interior and exterior walls.

I'd say keeping the room warm would be easier than keeping the tank warm.

Hopefully your tank is light-proof so any heat lamps wouldn't promote algae growth.

 

[actaeon277]

If you are keeping it above ground I would definitely insulate underneath the water container, keep it from direct contact with the concrete, and do the straw bales around it. At least keep the wind off the container.

As to keep it warm / not frozen in the winter? Two ideas come to mind.

1. Passive solar heat exchanger. Really depends on how much sun you get. Use the roof to hold the panel, use a small pump to circulate the water through the panel and into your tank. Examples of how that would work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=JRvxHA4AQbc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP8H5IOTwYU&feature=related

2. Wood fired / rocket stove heat exchanger. Same principle only you use wood as the heat source. Use the water tank as a heat sink, heat that thing up inside its insulated building. Have a temperature probe and if / when that thing gets cold. Fire up the stove and pump.

Problem with solar, is that we don't get many sunny days in the winter.

 

[Dorky_D]

What about something like this? If you read one of the reviews, someone used one of these for a bird bath. Just an idea!
Amazon.com: Kat's 24150 150 Watt 4"x 5" Universal Hot Pad Heater: Automotive