How Covering up Minority Crime Leads to Gun Control

[BehindBlueI's]

You see EdC.. I don't consider it my problem.. I'm not a minority and live in a rural setting so I just get to visit the urban areas to work and then go back home.. Being white and middle class predicates this problem even affecting me or my immediate family ... I don't associate with drug users or thugs some of which I'm related to so statistics say I am more likely to die in a vehicle accident or by lightning than at the hand of another person.. If I were black or brown then I could have a voice but because I'm not I don't get to weigh in on the issue on a larger level.. I sympathize with people affected by this epidemic but they have got to want a change themselves!!!!

If you only look at the odds of being the victim of violent crime, you are absolutely correct. However, you don't suppose it affects you in other ways other than the potential to be the victim of violent crime? Real quick, do you think those pockets of crime don't affect people's politicis, our economy, the gun control debate, etc?

 

[Bowman78]

If you only look at the odds of being the victim of violent crime, you are absolutely correct. However, you don't suppose it affects you in other ways other than the potential to be the victim of violent crime? Real quick, do you think those pockets of crime don't affect people's politicis, our economy, the gun control debate, etc?

I know it affects others politics and the 2a debate but there has been an anti gun movement as long as there have been guns in modern society... If you stop black on black and brown on brown crime there will still be a public outcry lead by pacifists and leftists to grab guns!!! Some people view the government as their savior others look in the mirror and reflect.. My point is that the cure must come from within the respective communities that are affected to work and not be labeled as racist.. The respectIve leaders of their demographics must put profit from tragedy behind a cure for the real problems that affect people of color..

 

[indiucky]

Agreed, I think the underlying issue is economic and that race is merely circumstantial. Truthfully I don't know how to comment about or even understand the culture of inner city and urban youth.

BBI pretty much hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that white guys like me don't want to be labeled a racist.

Ann Coulter was on the view one time promoting her book and she brought out an uncomfortable truth.....That crime rates for all races are exactly the same when you compare two parent households to single parent households...In other words, no matter what your race is, if you were raised in a two parent houshold as opposed to a single parent houshold the odds of you going into a life of crime decrease substantially....

[video=youtube;-QxrDbZTC0o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QxrDbZTC0o[/video]

It's just another opinion but she seemed to have her numbers and does a decent job of presenting her case........

 

[Leadeye]

The reality is that a growing segment of society makes a good living from these conditions and we all pay for it. It's not a positive trend.

 

[ModernGunner]

I do not have all the answers, either. But there ARE answers out there, different ideas and solutions offered by this or that person, including valued perspectives and ideas right here on INGO.

The real problem is, WHY is nothing ever DONE about it?

"Economic and educational factors"? Dubious, at best. As noted in a previous post, poor is poor. And picking up a book is a choice.

Is there a difference in 'mindset' based on culture? Maybe there is. We see yabos like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, for decades now, mindlessly whine about the 'problems in the Black community', but what have either of those two DONE about those problems? Nothing, other than make themselves wealthy with their whining.

Some people will complain 'it's economic', but mention raising minimum wage, the jobs most readily available to the poor and uneducated, and the complainers heads will explode with "that will ruin business!".

Some people will complain 'it's the education', but forget WHO is responsible for the student to learn; the student and his parent(s) (if the student in that age category).

Lastly, let's not forget that SOME just CHOOSE to do nothing for themself. They don't want to 'solve' their problems, they just want to complain about them.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Ann Coulter was on the view one time promoting her book and she brought out an uncomfortable truth.....That crime rates for all races are exactly the same when you compare two parent households to single parent households...In other words, no matter what your race is, if you were raised in a two parent houshold as opposed to a single parent houshold the odds of you going into a life of crime decrease substantially....

It's just another opinion but she seemed to have her numbers and does a decent job of presenting her case........

I think it is definitely a factor. Unfortunately, an unintended consequence of government "assistance" programs (which are no longer assistance but subsistence) is that it has become more profitable to maintain a single parent household.

As for it being an economic problem, let's think about that for a minute. An entire generation lived through the Great Depression. It might be interesting to see crime statistics from that era (if they exist) and compare them to what we see today. I may be full of (often am), but I don't believe there was a huge spike in crime, and specifically violent crime. So, what is the difference between those folks back then, and the current generation(s)? I think to a large degree it may be the difference in the family structure back then vs. today. Families, churches and communities seemed to help those less fortunate back then, but it was a hand UP, not a handOUT.

 

[Slawburger]

Dads are highly underrated, as is believing in something greater than yourself.

 

[huntall50]

Interesting discussion concerning race, crime and the many other mitigating circumstances effecting the inner city… Reps inbound. I am suprised it has not only remained civil but is also productive.

Someone referenced Americian Indians, I feel their culture post-trauma mirrors blacks post-slavery. Segeregated, impoverised finances and education, ownership of land restricted, outwardly hated(hung/murdered), high rates of alcohol abuse, and genocide within our own race. Lots of layers and tears needed to peel those onions. Slawburger brings it all back to the only real solution.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

That crime rates for all races are exactly the same when you compare two parent households to single parent households...

Correlation isn't causation. What other factors were controlled for? Single parents tend to be worse off financially. Was poverty accounted for? Access to education? Level of visible crime and tolerance of that crime by the community in which the child grows up?

Frankly, this sounds much too simple. I have trouble believing that all of the myriad factors that cause crime can boil down to any one variable so neatly as to completely obliterate all other variables and come out equal.

 

[bingley]

Agreed, I think the underlying issue is economic and that race is merely circumstantial. Truthfully I don't know how to comment about or even understand the culture of inner city and urban youth.

Well, I grew up in the inner city, though my demographic group isn't what people mean when they say "urban youth." (I'm also not young anymore, but that's a complaint I'll take up with the universe, I guess.) The most important lesson I'd give as an insider is if we shoot teach other in the inner city, it doesn't count, cuz that sort of stuff just happens with us people, right? But if some psycho shoots up a school in a nice area where nothing bad is ever supposed to happen, the whole country gets up in arms about gun control, mental healthcare, whatever. I'd bet more people die violently in the inner city than in mass shootings.

As for the race stuff, if you don't think you stereotype people unconsciously, you're probably not being honest with yourself. Hoosiers stereotype me for coming from NYC. Obviously I had to be some sort of anti-gun liberal. One very confused person even asked me at the range how I could possibly like shooting. It's happened so often that I developed strategies to forestall stereotypes. In other words, I have come to expect certain questions, behaviors, etc. from Hoosiers, and so that's the stereotype I have for them. So BBI's story doesn't surprise me -- that black guy in the military probably encountered too many white guys who wouldn't eat with him, and his pattern recognition just stereotyped BBI's behavior as coming from one of those.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

On a somewhat related theme, here's a link to Professor Randy Roth discussing factors influencing crime in America at the NIJ:

presenter-roth welcome

"So when we talk about the burden of murder or the cost of homicide, when we look at a rate, say, that for two-thirds of the 20th century you’re running a rate of 9 per 100,000 per year.

And people think, “Well! Nine out of 100,000 get murdered — that’s kind of small.” But what we know is that that’s a homicide rate; that’s not a homicide risk. You’ve got to multiply that figure by your life expectancy to really find out how likely it is you’re going to be murdered. And so when you look at a rate of 9 per 100,000, what we’re really saying if that’s sustained over the course of your life, right now with life expectancy is up around 76 or 77 years, that’s a lot of death. That means that if we sustain that rate, it means 1 out of every 140 children born in this country will be murdered.

And the way those rates work out if you project them for various groups — and, again, I’m using the categories that say the National Center for Health Statistics which is white, non-white, male, female. We know with those rates, 1 of every 460 white females would be murdered, 1 out of every 160 white males, 1 out of every 110 non-white females and 1 out of every 27 non-white males. Those rates are tremendously high, and even if we look at the rate where we’ve been — 5 to 6 per 100,000 — we’re talking about nearly 1 out of every 200 children born in America is going to be murdered. And that’s a tremendously high burden."

 

[ghuns]

Article completely (deliberately???) ignores economic and educational factors, and the way that certain segments of the population have been systematically excluded from the rest of society. Without looking at the whole picture, it lacks credibility. The author's conclusion is simple (and simpleminded) - black and brown people are inferior to whites, period.

And that right there is why we can't have nice things.

Because he didn't speculate as to the causes and sugar coat them with, "yeah, but it's not their fault", narrow minded, PC people scream RACIST!

The author could have written a freakin book about the economic and educational differences. Or other factors including 2 parent vs single parent homes, the mass incarceration of a generation of black men due to a failed war on drugs, or why countries closer to the equator have high rates of criminality. The point of the article is that there IS a difference. But to talk about that difference without a phd level dissertation as to the underlying factors and a have the debate moderated by Jesse Jackson is verboten?

The author's conclusion is simple. But the first step to solving a problem is admitting that a problem exists.

 

[searpinski]

Great article, thank you for posting!

Article completely (deliberately???) ignores economic and educational factors, and the way that certain segments of the population have been systematically excluded from the rest of society. Without looking at the whole picture, it lacks credibility. The author's conclusion is simple (and simpleminded) - black and brown people are inferior to whites, period.

I think the author deliberately left out economic factors and is just looking at the raw percentage data. A lot can be learned by looking at raw data.

 

[88GT]

Agreed, I think the underlying issue is economic and that race is merely circumstantial. Truthfully I don't know how to comment about or even understand the culture of inner city and urban youth.

BBI pretty much hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that white guys like me don't want to be labeled a racist.

It is not.

There is no single factor. But I can say this with a high degree of confidence: most of the "poverty" in America is self-induced, brought on by poor choices and priorities.

 

[88GT]

This is such a huge part of it.

*shakes head* I don't believe it is. I think the decisions that people make that contribute to criminal endeavors are the same ones that result in poverty. IOW, poverty is a byproduct, not a contributing factor.

 

[strokin7.3]

It is not.

There is no single factor. But I can say this with a high degree of confidence: most of the "poverty" in America is self-induced, brought on by poor choices and priorities.

I agree

*shakes head* I don't believe it is. I think the decisions that people make that contribute to criminal endeavors are the same ones that result in poverty. IOW, poverty is a byproduct, not a contributing factor.

I still kind of agree but what about the people living in poverty that aren't criminals?

 

[Bowman78]

*shakes head* I don't believe it is. I think the decisions that people make that contribute to criminal endeavors are the same ones that result in poverty. IOW, poverty is a byproduct, not a contributing factor.

I agree, most people that I know and are related to choose to live the way they do by a lifetime of poor choices and money mis-management.. Ie (I need a big screen or a new phone or alcohol or drugs vs paying my bills or working harder)... Im related to those types.. As a matter of fact I grew up in a blended family with all of us kids within 3 years of each other and there were 4 of us that came two from each respective parent and only one of each of us siblings,from both sides works regularly or has a pot to pee in.. The other two can barely survive and it's by their own apathy and poor choices that they exist that way... There are so many opportunities in this country that to turn to crime or the gov teet makes almost no sense...

 

[88GT]

I agree



I still kind of agree but what about the people living in poverty that aren't criminals?

it works both ways. If poverty is a major factor, why aren't all poor people criminals? Poverty is largely a result of choices. I'm saying that th connection between poverty and crime isn't in the direction most people assume. That doesn't mean there won't be poverty via other routes, just that the ones that lead to criminal choices also lead to poverty.

 

[85s10]

Amazing how the leaders basically ignore the urban issues with crime.

 

[billt]

I wouldn't say that its covered up. The stats are in plain view and well known to anyone who wants them. However, as a nation, we tend to be cowards when it comes to talking about race.

This is the problem. If you removed the minority crime rate from the overall crime rate in this country, it would plummet by 85% instantly. But as always, if you say it you're a "racist". A word that in todays society has become as watered down as cheap booze. People are going be forced to face reality in this country, regardless of how non PC it is. Name calling be damned. Sooner or later all of this, "Are you saying it's because they're black?", nonsense is going to be falling on deaf ears. Facts are facts.