Home Defense Shotgun

[goinggreyfast]

What do we have on standby? Believe it or not, a Mossberg .410 pump loaded with Winchester Elites. From across the room it will take down just about anything we need to have taken down. I prefer that to the larger gauge shotguns for my wife's benefit because of recoil in a SHTF situation. 5+1 always.

 

[VERT]

What do we have on standby? Believe it or not, a Mossberg .410 pump loaded with Winchester Elites. From across the room it will take down just about anything we need to have taken down. I prefer that to the larger gauge shotguns for my wife's benefit because of recoil in a SHTF situation. 5+1 always.

Not crazy IMO. Look how many are buying a 410 revolver. The shotgun makesva lot more sense to me since it would be easier to handle.

Now to post something unbelievable. I do not own a self defense shotgun.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Not crazy IMO. Look how many are buying a 410 revolver. The shotgun makesva lot more sense to me since it would be easier to handle.

Now to post something unbelievable. I do not own a self defense shotgun.

So you just flash that shiny 1911 and they run screaming for the hills?

 

[joncon]

Mine is a Mossberg 590 with first two #4 buck rest 00.

 

[VERT]

So you just flash that shiny 1911 and they run screaming for the hills?

You poke fun. My 1911 has a bigger bore then you shotgun.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

You poke fun. My 1911 has a bigger bore then you shotgun.

However, you already stated that Longer is Easier to Handle...

 

[ashby koss]

I found a used Remington 870 wingmaster with 18" deer barrel, for 150$. Load with 00 Buck and done.

 

[ashby koss]

Mine is a Mossberg 590 with first two #4 buck rest 00.

I prefer warning shots be placed in the chest... I'm not sure changing up ammo in tube is a great idea. But IDK.

 

[churchmouse]

This is always fun...

My setup:

Remington 870 with +2 mag tube
18.5" cylinder bore w/ XS Big Dot bead
Tube loaded with Winchester 00 Military Buckshot
Side-saddle with 3 more 00 buck and 3 Federal LE Slugs
Knoxx Recoil-reducing pistol grip/collapsible stock.
Single-point sling
Fenix light

Someone will be along shortly to tell you how my setup is all wrong and how all you really need is a single shot with birdshot.

Hell no....that is almost exactly what sits next to the bed in my crib.
-Tlr-1S light and #2 steel Hypersonic 3" shells.

 

[in625shooter]

As far as gauge a 12 can not be beat however if you are small structured or have a spouse that will use it a 20 ga is nothing to sneeze at. Even a 410 for that matter with decent loads.

As far as loads recommended, I find it funny some folks think 00 or slugs are the only answer. While every ones situation/house set up is different in most normal mortals houses the rooms and or hallways are not that large and you would be just as effective at that range (we are talking feet here in most cases) with any type of shot and it will usually be lethal at close range with not a lot of spread at across the room distances. Bird Shot is also more friendly on your house as far as mot damaging near as much as a slug or 00 or even #4 and it also minimizes the risk of penetrating a wall where a loved one might be in the next room.

As far as folks that want to stagger rounds. that is an old outdated method used by LE years ago and is hardly used today. Fact of the matter in a home defense situation you will not have the time to choose and pick your loads and as far as in the middle of an engagement probably won't be able to as far as cycling X number of live rounds through to get to THAT round. do you remember how many you shot under stress etc etc. You could have one in a speed feed on the stock would be a better option than staggering in the tube. Especially in a home defense situation. Unless it is a large invasion force you just won't have time for that!

Not saying there is never a reason to use slugs or 00 but you might be doing yourself more harm than not if you do. Just look and consider all your options as to your living arrangement.

 

[goinggreyfast]

You poke fun. My 1911 has a bigger bore then you shotgun.

Yeah, but with my Winchester Elites I've got about 20 projectiles coming out of the barrel every time I squeeze the trigger.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Plenty of good advise here already. I also use a Remington 870, but there's other options out there that will work just fine.

To me, the only mandatory items are:
1) A light
2) A sling

12g or 20g are preferable. 20g is less recoil and easier to practice with. 12g has more punch. Really, you can only punch someone so dead, though, and I can't think of many instances where at in house distances there would be much difference. I have a 12g because that's what I already had, but would be 100% ok with a 20g.

Optional:

1) Low light sight of some type
2) Mag tube extend

Ammo: #4 buck an up, preferably plated or otherwise hardened for self defense use. The softer lead buck shot varieties can deform in the barrel, flattening out to a greater or lesser degree as it is fired. This reduces the sectional density. Buckshot (or any round projectile) is already inefficient at penetration, shotguns work by using a lot of force to overcome that inefficiency, but flattening them in the barrel will reduce penetration. I prefer 00 based on availability in quality SD loads, how it patterns, and penetration.

Do not use birdshot. It does not reliably penetrate. I am not basing this on Internet hearsay, but on 1st hand viewing of gunshot wounds on the job. It makes messy but shallow wounds and relies on pain compliance. Yes, it can potentially be lethal, but so can a fall down a flight of stairs, and I'm not trusting either to defend my life.

 

[churchmouse]

Plenty of good advise here already. I also use a Remington 870, but there's other options out there that will work just fine.

To me, the only mandatory items are:
1) A light
2) A sling

12g or 20g are preferable. 20g is less recoil and easier to practice with. 12g has more punch. Really, you can only punch someone so dead, though, and I can't think of many instances where at in house distances there would be much difference. I have a 12g because that's what I already had, but would be 100% ok with a 20g.

Optional:

1) Low light sight of some type
2) Mag tube extend

Ammo: #4 buck an up, preferably plated or otherwise hardened for self defense use. The softer lead buck shot varieties can deform in the barrel, flattening out to a greater or lesser degree as it is fired. This reduces the sectional density. Buckshot (or any round projectile) is already inefficient at penetration, shotguns work by using a lot of force to overcome that inefficiency, but flattening them in the barrel will reduce penetration. I prefer 00 based on availability in quality SD loads, how it patterns, and penetration.

Do not use birdshot. It does not reliably penetrate. I am not basing this on Internet hearsay, but on 1st hand viewing of gunshot wounds on the job. It makes messy but shallow wounds and relies on pain compliance. Yes, it can potentially be lethal, but so can a fall down a flight of stairs, and I'm not trusting either to defend my life.

We did our own non-scientific test on 12G loads. We found that the most actual damage was done by the #2 Hypersonic loads from Remington. We shot various targets with all sorts of different loads and by far the #2 tore things up worse than even the 00 Buck.
The Hypersonic kicks like a freaking mule as it is rated at 1750 FPS so small framed folks might not enjoy it.

 

[VERT]

However, you already stated that Longer is Easier to Handle...

I wouldn't know. My gun is shorter in length but larger in girth.

 

[in625shooter]

Plenty of good advise here already. I also use a Remington 870, but there's other options out there that will work just fine.

To me, the only mandatory items are:
1) A light
2) A sling

12g or 20g are preferable. 20g is less recoil and easier to practice with. 12g has more punch. Really, you can only punch someone so dead, though, and I can't think of many instances where at in house distances there would be much difference. I have a 12g because that's what I already had, but would be 100% ok with a 20g.

Optional:

1) Low light sight of some type
2) Mag tube extend

Ammo: #4 buck an up, preferably plated or otherwise hardened for self defense use. The softer lead buck shot varieties can deform in the barrel, flattening out to a greater or lesser degree as it is fired. This reduces the sectional density. Buckshot (or any round projectile) is already inefficient at penetration, shotguns work by using a lot of force to overcome that inefficiency, but flattening them in the barrel will reduce penetration. I prefer 00 based on availability in quality SD loads, how it patterns, and penetration.

Do not use birdshot. It does not reliably penetrate. I am not basing this on Internet hearsay, but on 1st hand viewing of gunshot wounds on the job. It makes messy but shallow wounds and relies on pain compliance. Yes, it can potentially be lethal, but so can a fall down a flight of stairs, and I'm not trusting either to defend my life.

BehindBlue, I understand what you are saying with bird shot however let me respectfully add/slightly disagree. Within the close confines across a room distance and of down a shorter hall way bird shot is a lethal combination. When/if distances are outside of 10 yards then yes a different heavier load would be preferable. I also have first hand viewing and have seen fatal bird shot wounds within the parameters I mentioned here and in my first post. I have also seen #4 not be as effective outside of 12-15 yards as well. A lot of time folks try to get more effectiveness out of their load than reality allows by shooting at longer ranges than that round was designed to (the 30 carbine rumored ineffectiveness comes to mind)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Within the close confines across a room distance and of down a shorter hall way bird shot is a lethal combination.

It can be, but not reliably, and that's the difference. No one disputes that bird shot has the potential to be fatal. No one disputes it *may* work to stop an attacker A .22 short has the potential to be fatal, and a starter pistol has the potential to stop an attacker. However, we're dealing with odds, and buckshot is simply better at stopping human beings more reliably, and birdshot often fails to penetrate enough to get to vital organs, lacks the punch to break bone for a mechanical stop, and is much easier to defeat with heavy clothing, obesity, etc. There is simply zero compelling reason to choose birdshot for self defense when it is demonstrably inferior to other options and offers nothing of note to counterbalance the equation.

My last bird shot victim had a lovely pattern on his back, ran away, and drove himself to the hospital. I don't know the distances involved because he was pretty uncooperative about the circumstances, but the shot was just below the skin. The one before that was shot at near contact distance in the lower leg and foot. Nothing penetrated more than about 1.5". Everything in his foot stopped dead when it hit the bone. He wasn't tap dancing, but he was still mobile. That's a shot so close the shooter and the shootee were walking on the sidewalk side by side, and it failed to immoblize the leg it hit.

Keeping in mind that "center mass" means center mass of the exposed target, and you may not always have a soft tissue torso shot, the ability to reliably break bone should be a concern. Not just well placed soft tissue shots or near contact execution style shots to the CNS.

 

[Redhorse]

Just depends on your taste (if money isn't a major issue) really. I did what Joe Biden said and got a double barrel... Just kidding, but I seriously use a double barrel because it's what I prefer and am able to shoot the best. I use standard HD ammo. I figure if I shoot someone, it really won't matter that much what they're shot with.

 

[in625shooter]

It can be, but not reliably, and that's the difference. No one disputes that bird shot has the potential to be fatal. No one disputes it *may* work to stop an attacker A .22 short has the potential to be fatal, and a starter pistol has the potential to stop an attacker. However, we're dealing with odds, and buckshot is simply better at stopping human beings more reliably, and birdshot often fails to penetrate enough to get to vital organs, lacks the punch to break bone for a mechanical stop, and is much easier to defeat with heavy clothing, obesity, etc. There is simply zero compelling reason to choose birdshot for self defense when it is demonstrably inferior to other options and offers nothing of note to counterbalance the equation.

My last bird shot victim had a lovely pattern on his back, ran away, and drove himself to the hospital. I don't know the distances involved because he was pretty uncooperative about the circumstances, but the shot was just below the skin. The one before that was shot at near contact distance in the lower leg and foot. Nothing penetrated more than about 1.5". Everything in his foot stopped dead when it hit the bone. He wasn't tap dancing, but he was still mobile. That's a shot so close the shooter and the shootee were walking on the sidewalk side by side, and it failed to immoblize the leg it hit.

Keeping in mind that "center mass" means center mass of the exposed target, and you may not always have a soft tissue torso shot, the ability to reliably break bone should be a concern. Not just well placed soft tissue shots or near contact execution style shots to the CNS.

On my days as a municipal LEO I saw a couple bad guys hit with 45's walking around like they just had a bad case of heart burn. I have also seen several folks within the Federal system walking around with wounds from 9mm, 40, 45, 357, 10mm , 5.56 and even one with a 7.62 wound from a BOP M 14 back in the day when US Penitentiary's used them and two others with 00 buck wounds. Nothing is an absolute. often times failure is the result of the shooter trying to get more range etc out of their chosen rounds than they should, other times it's just Murphy's Law!

 

[abuckle]

As far as gauge a 12 can not be beat however if you are small structured or have a spouse that will use it a 20 ga is nothing to sneeze at. Even a 410 for that matter with decent loads.

As far as loads recommended, I find it funny some folks think 00 or slugs are the only answer. While every ones situation/house set up is different in most normal mortals houses the rooms and or hallways are not that large and you would be just as effective at that range (we are talking feet here in most cases) with any type of shot and it will usually be lethal at close range with not a lot of spread at across the room distances. Bird Shot is also more friendly on your house as far as mot damaging near as much as a slug or 00 or even #4 and it also minimizes the risk of penetrating a wall where a loved one might be in the next room.

As far as folks that want to stagger rounds. that is an old outdated method used by LE years ago and is hardly used today. Fact of the matter in a home defense situation you will not have the time to choose and pick your loads and as far as in the middle of an engagement probably won't be able to as far as cycling X number of live rounds through to get to THAT round. do you remember how many you shot under stress etc etc. You could have one in a speed feed on the stock would be a better option than staggering in the tube. Especially in a home defense situation. Unless it is a large invasion force you just won't have time for that!

Not saying there is never a reason to use slugs or 00 but you might be doing yourself more harm than not if you do. Just look and consider all your options as to your living arrangement.

This is a good thought to consider. I have an older home with plaster walls. Think of A large square with 4 smaller squares. Bathroom is one square and my bedroom sits between the 2 others. We have children so over penetration is a concern, But if I am shooting an intruder at the top of the stairs, I would not have anyone in the line of behind the intruder. It seems 00buck is the normal recommendation though.

 

[chezuki]

One more time for good measure...

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'm going to break out the bullhorn for this one...

ANYTHING THAT WILL RELIABLY PENETRATE DEEP ENOUGH TO PHYSICALLY INCAPACITATE SOMEONE WILL EASILY PASS THROUGH COMMON HOUSEHOLD BUILDING MATERIALS!!!

Birdshot has no business in a defensive gun.

Know your angles and always be sure of your target and what's behind it.