Home defense shotgun questions

[thebishopp]

I have a stoeger double barrel. Their "tactical" model. Which I like because of the vented ports in the barrel as well as the weaver rails (which allow me to attach my light to the bottom). Other than that all I have on it is a butstock saddle to hold my extra rounds. That thing is a dream to shoot and reloading is pretty quick once you practice a bit.

That being said... if I had my druthers I would have that new keltech 14 shot shotgun :-) Or a modified saiga (for the magazine).

 

[iChokePeople]

I have a stoeger double barrel. Their "tactical" model. Which I like because of the vented ports in the barrel as well as the weaver rails (which allow me to attach my light to the bottom). Other than that all I have on it is a butstock saddle to hold my extra rounds. That thing is a dream to shoot and reloading is pretty quick once you practice a bit.

That being said... if I had my druthers I would have that new keltech 14 shot shotgun :-) Or a modified saiga (for the magazine).

IMHO, the magazine has its pros and cons in this situation. I have a Saiga, and it generally would not be the shotgun I'd grab if something went bump in the night. In a dark home-clearing situation with the possibility of bad-breath distance fighting, I don't want the magazine in the way and don't want the possibility that it will fall out. I also don't like the collapsible stock on my Saiga for this task.

In this scenario I would either take my Mossy 590 or 11-87 Police. The solid buttsock is more likely to withstand a full-power buttstroke to the head or whatever body part presents itself if you happen to round a corner and find a BG very close, or otherwise end up in a fight. The mossy also has a bayonet on the business end that would really suck as a follow-up to the buttstroke and a precursor to smoke and loud noises. But, again, these choices are because of MY background, taking MY house and situation into consideration. What works for anyone else may be completely different. I would also suppose, though, that unless someone was really trained, prepared, and/or lucky, bumping into a guy in the dark with the intent and training to put the butt of his shotgun on your head, then the bayonet on whatever body part is in the way of the slashing blade, then insert as much 00-buckshot as your body will hold, or more, is generally an unfavorable situation.

ETA: Another benefit to the bayonet: I have NEVER missed my target, with any weapon, once my bayonet was inserted in the target. I consider it an aiming device. Insert bayonet, pull trigger, 100% hits.

 

[rhino]

Everyone seems to ignore the fact that simply because you have a light on your gun does not mean you immediately "light it up" as soon as you hear a bump in the night.

With a light, you have the OPTION to illuminate the situation, or you can keep it off. I like options. I could throw out numerous scenarios where using a light could keep you from killing the wrong person, but your imaginations are clearly as vivid as mine...

Well, maybe not everyone . . .

You make a good point. Lights are tools. Any tool can be used to your benefit or your detriment. I consider lights to be essential tools whether you have a firearm or not.

A point that should be reiterated is that we regular people have to account for every round that emerges from our firearms. Every shot we fire is our responsibility. Positive identification of a genuine threat is essential, not just a good idea.

Keep in mind that someone who attacking you doesn't need to identify you. He or she is not constrained by the same ethics, morals, and safety issues that bind most of us. For instance, they probably don't care to see whether or not you seem to be a threat or whether or not your kids bedroom is right behind you where their misses are going to go. All they need to see is your vague shape in the general direction they're going to shoot. They don't care. I do care, so I choose to train, practice, and condition myself to positively identify threats before I commence to blasting. Whether or not I will actually do so under the stress of genuine threats I don't know, but all I can do is prepare to the best of ability.

Using lights to assist in information gathering during a potentially violent encounter is not always intuitively obvious to people. So-called "light discipline" is an important concept (using just as much light as you need to see what you need to see), and along with that, the idea of not standing still (if you can help it). Standing still with a light shining is generally not a good idea. Using your light long enough to see what you need to see then letting it extinguish and moving is among the better ideas.

Finally, regardless of the weapon(s) and tools I possess, I'd prefer not to clear anyplace including my home by myself unless there is no other option. Give me a couple of my buddies and a really good reason to do and then maybe.

 

[IndySSD]

Must..... spread.....rep..... damned communist rep system!!

Well, maybe not everyone . . .

You make a good point. Lights are tools. Any tool can be used to your benefit or your detriment. I consider lights to be essential tools whether you have a firearm or not.

A point that should be reiterated is that we regular people have to account for every round that emerges from our firearms. Every shot we fire is our responsibility. Positive identification of a genuine threat is essential, not just a good idea.

Keep in mind that someone who attacking you doesn't need to identify you. He or she is not constrained by the same ethics, morals, and safety issues that bind most of us. For instance, they probably don't care to see whether or not you seem to be a threat or whether or not your kids bedroom is right behind you where their misses are going to go. All they need to see is your vague shape in the general direction they're going to shoot. They don't care. I do care, so I choose to train, practice, and condition myself to positively identify threats before I commence to blasting. Whether or not I will actually do so under the stress of genuine threats I don't know, but all I can do is prepare to the best of ability.

Using lights to assist in information gathering during a potentially violent encounter is not always intuitively obvious to people. So-called "light discipline" is an important concept (using just as much light as you need to see what you need to see), and along with that, the idea of not standing still (if you can help it). Standing still with a light shining is generally not a good idea. Using your light long enough to see what you need to see then letting it extinguish and moving is among the better ideas.

Finally, regardless of the weapon(s) and tools I possess, I'd prefer not to clear anyplace including my home by myself unless there is no other option. Give me a couple of my buddies and a really good reason to do and then maybe.

 

[rhino]

Must..... spread.....rep..... damned communist rep system!!

Maybe it's like gift-giving . . . it's the thought that counts?!?

 

[iChokePeople]

Well, maybe not everyone . . .
A point that should be reiterated is that we regular people have to account for every round that emerges from our firearms. Every shot we fire is our responsibility. Positive identification of a genuine threat is essential, not just a good idea.

And just one more point in favor of bayonet-assisted aiming.

 

[rhino]

And just one more point in favor of bayonet-assisted aiming.

That's an excellent point!

Many people don't understand how much worse contact or near contact shots are in terms of wounding than just hits with a projectile. Those hot, rapidly expanding gases do a lot more damage when you're close enough for them to be a factor. Example: bang sticks/power heads that are used on sea going predators only use a primer and a powder charge and the wounds are devastating by those gases blasting a big hole in tissue.

 

[GBuck]

Just to be clear....
Shotgun for HD = Hollywood
Dual suppressed pistols for HD = legitimate
QUOTE]
hahahaha, I was thinking the same thing!

 

[thebishopp]

IMHO, the magazine has its pros and cons in this situation. I have a Saiga, and it generally would not be the shotgun I'd grab if something went bump in the night. In a dark home-clearing situation with the possibility of bad-breath distance fighting, I don't want the magazine in the way and don't want the possibility that it will fall out. I also don't like the collapsible stock on my Saiga for this task.

In this scenario I would either take my Mossy 590 or 11-87 Police. The solid buttsock is more likely to withstand a full-power buttstroke to the head or whatever body part presents itself if you happen to round a corner and find a BG very close, or otherwise end up in a fight. The mossy also has a bayonet on the business end that would really suck as a follow-up to the buttstroke and a precursor to smoke and loud noises. But, again, these choices are because of MY background, taking MY house and situation into consideration. What works for anyone else may be completely different. I would also suppose, though, that unless someone was really trained, prepared, and/or lucky, bumping into a guy in the dark with the intent and training to put the butt of his shotgun on your head, then the bayonet on whatever body part is in the way of the slashing blade, then insert as much 00-buckshot as your body will hold, or more, is generally an unfavorable situation.

ETA: Another benefit to the bayonet: I have NEVER missed my target, with any weapon, once my bayonet was inserted in the target. I consider it an aiming device. Insert bayonet, pull trigger, 100% hits.

Putting a bayonet on sounds like a good idea. Don't know if I can do that with the double barrel but my ar has the lug (I just never got a bayonet for it).

I wouldn't have thought about the magazine on the Saiga getting in the way or that it might fall out. Does it seat pretty securely?

 

[iChokePeople]

Putting a bayonet on sounds like a good idea. Don't know if I can do that with the double barrel but my ar has the lug (I just never got a bayonet for it).

I wouldn't have thought about the magazine on the Saiga getting in the way or that it might fall out. Does it seat pretty securely?

Mine seats pretty securely... for its intended purpose. But in a fight (up close and personal), I'm not comfortable enough with it that I'd choose it, today. Probably not ever, for THIS task, simply because the magazine is right there in the way of using the shotgun as a two-ended close-quarters weapon. Every buttstroke, every slash, you're begging to get it caught and diminish the effect of your attack, at least, and it seems very likely that it would remove the magazine or break it off. It's pretty large and doesn't have as much protection as the magazine on an M16/M4.

 

[rbrthenderson]

OP, I agree with the flashlight idea. I've also added a pistol grip stock on my Mossberg 500 from ATI. It gives me the feel and control of a pistol grip, but also gives me the option of shouldering it. It's a very comfortable way to shoot it and it remains small enough to corner and maneuver.