HD 12 gauge load

[Ashkelon]

00 here in the middle of the city. Got plaster walls and my sight line off the bedroom is way off the kids room. If its brown its down.

 

[remymartin]

Fire, Pump, Repeat...... The debate on HD ammo is shallow and pedantic. Just keep shooting. I've never seen a vest that covered anyones head.

 

[remymartin]

If its brown its down.[/quote]



Well played Sir.. those UPS guys..... LOL

 

[Naptown]

just bought some 00 buck 3" magnums for a mossy 500a with a pistol grip. I shot it with 2 3/4" shells and it was almost hard to hang on to. I'm thinking the 3" shells are probably unnecessary in that shorty shotty. Anyone shooting 3" shells out of a pursuader type gun? I need a forearm strap.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

just bought some 00 buck 3" magnums for a mossy 500a with a pistol grip. I shot it with 2 3/4" shells and it was almost hard to hang on to. I'm thinking the 3" shells are probably unnecessary in that shorty shotty. Anyone shooting 3" shells out of a pursuader type gun? I need a forearm strap.

I think 3" is a little overkill. Espeically out of a pistol grip. If you can not get the job done with a 2 3/4" shell, throw the gun at them and run.

 

[Eddie]

just bought some 00 buck 3" magnums for a mossy 500a with a pistol grip. I shot it with 2 3/4" shells and it was almost hard to hang on to. I'm thinking the 3" shells are probably unnecessary in that shorty shotty. Anyone shooting 3" shells out of a pursuader type gun? I need a forearm strap.

I fill the tube with 2 3/4" 00 buck to get the greatest number of rounds inside the gun. Then I put 4-3" 00 buck in the sidesadlle along with 2-3" slugs. I use one of those "D" shaped forends.

 

[VUPDblue]

just bought some 00 buck 3" magnums for a mossy 500a with a pistol grip. I shot it with 2 3/4" shells and it was almost hard to hang on to. I'm thinking the 3" shells are probably unnecessary in that shorty shotty. Anyone shooting 3" shells out of a pursuader type gun? I need a forearm strap.

I recommend not using 3"+ shells for HD for the exact reason you mentioned. They are harsh, there's no debating that. In fact they are too harsh for a HD situation. You'll get quicker follow-up with the lighter (shorter) shells and they'll be just as devastating at HD ranges. You'll also be less likely to drop the gun or injure yourself with the shorter shells. I also strongly recommend against a pistol grip only shotgun for HD. They are wildly inaccurate, hard to hold on to and quite punishing, making correct shot placement and follow-up shots practically impossible. A stocked shotgun is easier to hang onto, more solid, more accurate, and easier to maneuver correctly.

 

[Naptown]

I recommend not using 3"+ shells for HD for the exact reason you mentioned. They are harsh, there's no debating that. In fact they are too harsh for a HD situation. You'll get quicker follow-up with the lighter (shorter) shells and they'll be just as devastating at HD ranges. You'll also be less likely to drop the gun or injure yourself with the shorter shells. I also strongly recommend against a pistol grip only shotgun for HD. They are wildly inaccurate, hard to hold on to and quite punishing, making correct shot placement and follow-up shots practically impossible. A stocked shotgun is easier to hang onto, more solid, more accurate, and easier to maneuver correctly.

Yeah, I'm going to go pick up some 00 buck in the 2 3/4" shells. The more I think about it, in a HD situation a 2 3/4" is going to do the trick.

 

[Bisley Man]

I recommend not using 3"+ shells for HD for the exact reason you mentioned. They are harsh, there's no debating that. In fact they are too harsh for a HD situation. You'll get quicker follow-up with the lighter (shorter) shells and they'll be just as devastating at HD ranges. You'll also be less likely to drop the gun or injure yourself with the shorter shells. I also strongly recommend against a pistol grip only shotgun for HD. They are wildly inaccurate, hard to hold on to and quite punishing, making correct shot placement and follow-up shots practically impossible. A stocked shotgun is easier to hang onto, more solid, more accurate, and easier to maneuver correctly.

I whole heartedly agree. I had one of those pistol grip Mossies in the 1980's. I still write funny and have trouble with my fork because of it! Also, 3" shells are over kill unless the circus train derails in your 'hood and lions, tigers or bears come through the door!

 

[clfergus]

Good info found here The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

I started the thread. Thanks to those who have answered. This is the best post I have to say. Got me all the information regarding stopping power and penetration show in a real life application.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Second that!

Second-and-a-half; I use LE133 00, which is the 8-pellet version of that load.

ill third that one.

 

[rhino]

Birdshot will certainly be better than nothing, but as you probaly inferred from the Box o' Truth and similar web sites, you can't expect reliable penetration on 2-legged predators. Yeah it will penetrate less in building materials than buckshot, but you also need to get the job done.

But you have a choice to make ahead of time, so you don't have to settle for better than nothing. In my opinion (for what it's worth), #4 buckshot is probably the smallest shot one should use for personal defense. 00 buck is what I keep loaded in mine.

Another thing that is critical is that you pattern your gun with your ammuntion at different distances. You absolutely need to know what kind of pattern your gun is likely to make at the ranges you need to fire it. You can't make any assumptions either, as each gun/choke/brand will be different and you just have to shoot it to see.

Remember that nothing you can hold in your hands is guaranteed to stop an attacker with one shot. All you can do is stack the odds in your favor. Also remember that nothing is foolproof. Even a 12ga slug can be (and had been) deflected by the brim of a baseball cap.

 

[lovemywoods]

Rhino says:

Another thing that is critical is that you pattern your gun with your ammuntion at different distances. You absolutely need to know what kind of pattern your gun is likely to make at the ranges you need to fire it. You can't make any assumptions either, as each gun/choke/brand will be different and you just have to shoot it to see.

Here's a example of the different patterns I got from my Remington 870 shotgun:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...he_pattern_of_various_brands_of_buckshot.html

 

[Disposable Heart]

Rhino says:




Here's a example of the different patterns I got from my Remington 870 shotgun:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...he_pattern_of_various_brands_of_buckshot.html

Wow, great post and Awesome review!

It is pretty amazing to see the Federal and Hornady stuff group SO tightly. It does also serve as a reminder that a scattergun isn't a claymore on a stick however. One does have to aim the shotgun and as Rhino put it in his last paragraph: It ain't an end all either.

I can't remember what the IMPD uses, but I do remember seeing TONS of the boxes of the Flitecontrol buck in the dumpster. I am going to have to pick up a few boxes, gotta replace my Winchester unplated.

Two questions however for all ehre:
1. Do most (I know, generalization) "low recoil" group that tight as in the report by lovemywoods?
2. Also, what slugs are folks using? I know a 2 3/4" is the thing to have, but for a reference, what slugs would be suitable for a "last case" "last chance" situation? Sites like Brassfetcher and others show that hollow point Foster like slugs seem to disentegrate into dough-nuts because of their light construction and hollow base. I am interested in keeping 2 slugs in my sidesaddle upside down "just in case".

 

[IndyGunworks]

as for slugs, i bought a case of 250 ranger 7/8 oz slugs from OMB police supply for 120 shipped.... these will last me well into SHTF and they hit w/in 5 inches of my point of aim out to 50 yards.... good enough for a torso shot, or dear at close range.... this is out of an 18.5 smooth bore.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

Second that!

That's what I've been trying to find since you did that review. I did find some of the LE127 00 at the Ft Wayne show yesterday though and bought a couple of boxes to see how it does. It may not be low recoil, but I think otherwise its the same as what you have there.

I'm currently rocking the S&B 00 buckshot in my mav 88. But am working on getting together different loads to test and see how they group with it at HD distances. I'm thinking the federal or the TAP will work best. We'll see.

 

[lovemywoods]

That's what I've been trying to find since you did that review. I did find some of the LE127 00 at the Ft Wayne show yesterday though and bought a couple of boxes to see how it does. It may not be low recoil, but I think otherwise its the same as what you have there.

Try here...

Ammunition To Go : 25rds - 12 Ga. Federal LE Tactical Low Recoil 9 pell. OO Buck [LE132-00] - $21.95

 

[clfergus]

where could i find Federal Tactical LE132 around the Indy area?

 

[lovemywoods]

1. Do most (I know, generalization) "low recoil" group that tight as in the report by lovemywoods?

I don't believe that the tight grouping is a function of the low recoil loading, but rather the way the wad/cup is designed that keeps the pellets together longer in flight.

So, I wouldn't assume that 'low recoil' = tight grouping. I also want to stress that even a shell called 'low recoil' has a significant punch, particularly at conversational distances!

 

[Cwood]

TSG