HB1267: Big Ag Strikes Back in Indiana

[Fargo]

Isn't it survival of the fittest pretty much everywhere? You either grow and innovate or stand the chance of going under. Why should they be entitled to their perfect comfort zone and untouchable while larger producers put more into their operations to follow the rules?

Operation A is over 20,000 birds, doing everything right and spending more per bird to do it.
Operation B is purposely under 20,000 birds, not doing as much as Operation A and spending less per bird.

It's a "what if" thing. What if something goes bad? You don't mess with poultry now days.

Just my opinion.

Going under because you don't grow/innovate is one thing. Going under because the competition got the general assembly to outlaw you is quite another.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Going under because you don't grow/innovate is one thing. Going under because the competition got the general assembly to outlaw you is quite another.

 

[wagyu52]

 

[mrjarrell]

Going under because you don't grow/innovate is one thing. Going under because the competition got the general assembly to outlaw you is quite another.

Yep.

 

[Hoosierkav]

Is 20,000 chickens a realistic split between a small and a large farm?

I'm not sure how scary 20,000 free range chickens would look...

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Going under because you don't grow/innovate is one thing. Going under because the competition got the general assembly to outlaw you is quite another.

Ditto

Goggle "Joel Salitin"

 

[IndyDave1776]

Is 20,000 chickens a realistic split between a small and a large farm?

I'm not sure how scary 20,000 free range chickens would look...

How many arbitrary government distinctions can be held up to being 'realistic'? Any other breaking point would be equally unreasonable one way or another. The correct solution is to put the brakes on both government rent seeking and on using laws to stifle competition.

 

[Thor]

Just got back from talking to my state rep. He could not believe this bill passed...he's disgusted with it. The Farm Bureau came in supporting it and half the legislature folded.

 

[seedubs1]

Always follow the money. CAFO's are disgusting, and anybody who actually knows anything about CAFO's and still uses their products because it's cheaper is not worth my time. CAFO's are 100% bad. Bad for producing good meat, bad for the environment, and just bad all around. Have fun eating your cheap disgusting meat. If you can't afford good meat, I really don't think you should eat meat.

And yes, by seed, I'm referring to the restrictions put on farmers by big companies like Monsanto restricting them on reproducing on the guise of patents. It's really disgusting what they do. Big farmers aren't really allowed to farm anymore. All they can do is spread seed and spray chemicals on the plants. I'll continue buying from farmers that actually farm. Not to mention, my food won't be covered in chemicals.

First, I am 100% for CAFO's and I always will be. They are amazing operations and allow my food bills to be lower.


So, where do you get your other groceries? Or do you just eat locally grown vegetables? Are you aware of how much "Big Ag" from "factories" you are probably consuming?

Restrictions on seed? You mean patent protection and reproducing?

 

[wagyu52]

Always follow the money. CAFO's are disgusting, and anybody who actually knows anything about CAFO's and still uses their products because it's cheaper is not worth my time. CAFO's are 100% bad. Bad for producing good meat, bad for the environment, and just bad all around. Have fun eating your cheap disgusting meat. If you can't afford good meat, I really don't think you should eat meat.

And yes, by seed, I'm referring to the restrictions put on farmers by big companies like Monsanto restricting them on reproducing on the guise of patents. It's really disgusting what they do. Big farmers aren't really allowed to farm anymore. All they can do is spread seed and spray chemicals on the plants. I'll continue buying from farmers that actually farm. Not to mention, my food won't be covered in chemicals.

One cow standing In a barn eating hay is by definition a CAFO, its just not a reportable number. So it's better to raise livestock outside in sub zero weather of January or mud in March?
All winter I've watched a ASPCA comercial showing cold shivering animals out in the elements telling me they need food and warm shelter form the elements. So that's ok for a cat, dog or horse but bad if it's a cow, pig or chicken? How do you explain this?

Farmers are using a fraction of the chemicals they use to, modern farm equipment has accuracy over 1000's of acres measured to within inches and onces. We are using less fertilizer than 20yrs ago to grow record yielding crops on fewer acres. We are progressing towards even less use of fertilizer and pesticides and will not regress to the days of old you look so fondly on when entire crops where lost to weeds and pest or we dumped on massive amounts of fertilizer and chemicals.
You can keep your organic Chipotle burrito with a side of E. coli that sickens hundreds and even kills, I'm fine without it. Tell me how many peoples death last year was linked directly to GMO products? How many to Organic? I'll give you hint one of them is -0-

 

[IndyDave1776]

Since we are bringing up GMO...if it is so benign, then why are those who profit from it insisting that it should be illegal for me to know and make an informed decision about what I put in my mouth?

 

[seedubs1]

This. I'm sure as hell not eating that garbage. I'd rather lick a public toilet seat at the Indy500.

Pushing legislation by lobbying and paying off politicians so that they don't have to tell me what's in/on the food I'm buying.....No thanks. I'll stick to food that's not doused in chemicals.

Since we are bringing up GMO...if it is so benign, then why are those who profit from it insisting that it should be illegal for me to know and make an informed decision about what I put in my mouth?

 

[seedubs1]

Please.....letting an animal into a barn is not considered a CAFO. Stop the BS.

CAFO:


And nothing like genetically engineered crops to go along with your CAFO meat. Have fun eating fish DNA in your corn with a side of pesticide. Hope you like your cancer.

One cow standing In a barn eating hay is by definition a CAFO, its just not a reportable number. So it's better to raise livestock outside in sub zero weather of January or mud in March?
All winter I've watched a ASPCA comercial showing cold shivering animals out in the elements telling me they need food and warm shelter form the elements. So that's ok for a cat, dog or horse but bad if it's a cow, pig or chicken? How do you explain this?

Farmers are using a fraction of the chemicals they use to, modern farm equipment has accuracy over 1000's of acres measured to within inches and onces. We are using less fertilizer than 20yrs ago to grow record yielding crops on fewer acres. We are progressing towards even less use of fertilizer and pesticides and will not regress to the days of old you look so fondly on when entire crops where lost to weeds and pest or we dumped on massive amounts of fertilizer and chemicals.
You can keep your organic Chipotle burrito with a side of E. coli that sickens hundreds and even kills, I'm fine without it. Tell me how many peoples death last year was linked directly to GMO products? How many to Organic? I'll give you hint one of them is -0-

 

[JettaKnight]

Since we are bringing up GMO...if it is so benign, then why are those who profit from it insisting that it should be illegal for me to know and make an informed decision about what I put in my mouth?

Are you asking for another law related to labeling of food?

Why do you hate their freedom to label their packages the way they choose?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Are you asking for another law related to labeling of food?

Why do you hate their freedom to label their packages the way they choose?

This amounts to two questions for the price of one. First, I do support requiring truthful disclosure. Second, and more important, I oppose the efforts which have been made to prohibit labeling GMO-free foods as such. So far as I am concerned, if I am going to ingest it, I have a right to know what it is.

 

[wagyu52]

Please.....letting an animal into a barn is not considered a CAFO. Stop the BS.

CAFO:
View attachment 44808

And nothing like genetically engineered crops to go along with your CAFO meat. Have fun eating fish DNA in your corn with a side of pesticide. Hope you like your cancer.

Land Quality in Indiana: Confined Feeding Operations (CFOs)

"If you confine livestock for more than 45 days without vegetation you will by definition a CFO/CAFO. The quantity of animals will determine if you need a permit and comply with CAFO regulations and that quanity is arbitrary." I wrote that down at an IDEM meeting in the mid 90's and never forgot it. Read the above link, oh sure if you have X number of Y you need a CAFO permit but it uses no numbers to define what confined feeding is.

Just make sure you wash your organic veggies before you eat them, you never know who might have ***** in them.

 

[HoughMade]

Going under because you don't grow/innovate is one thing. Going under because the competition got the general assembly to outlaw you is quite another.

Agreed. Isn't having laws in place that put regulatory restraints on large producers, but not on small essentially the same thing?

It seems to me that by not applying the regulations to larger producers, the law was trying to make up the difference advantage in operating costs that the larger producers had....trying to use the law to make smaller producers more competitive.

Whether this is good policy or not, it may be, let's not pretend that one side tries to use regulation to its advantage while the other is pure and clean as the wind-driven snow as to that issue.

Is 20,000 chickens a realistic split between a small and a large farm?

I'm not sure how scary 20,000 free range chickens would look...

What free-market reason is there for a differentiation at all?

 

[Fargo]

Agreed. Isn't having laws in place that put regulatory restraints on large producers, but not on small essentially the same thing?

It seems to me that by not applying the regulations to larger producers, the law was trying to make up the difference advantage in operating costs that the larger producers had....trying to use the law to make smaller producers more competitive.

Whether this is good policy or not, it may be, let's not pretend that one side tries to use regulation to its advantage while the other is pure and clean as the wind-driven snow as to that issue.



What free-market reason is there for a differentiation at all?

Did the small farm lobby pull its "vast" influence with the General Assembly to impose the big farm regs to get competitive advantage?

 

[HoughMade]

Did the small farm lobby pull its "vast" influence with the General Assembly to impose the big farm regs to get competitive advantage?

In a word- yes. If not directly, through surrogates of all kinds. Who was behind the regulations in the first place?

In the end, it does not matter though, what they got was less regulation while their competition was more heavily regulated with the attendant costs.

Maybe this was a "good" thing- whatever that means, but to act like applying the same standards is somehow immoral in some way....

 

[JettaKnight]

This amounts to two questions for the price of one. First, I do support requiring truthful disclosure. Second, and more important, I oppose the efforts which have been made to prohibit labeling GMO-free foods as such. So far as I am concerned, if I am going to ingest it, I have a right to know what it is.

Your argument is not correct. There is no prohibition on labeling food GMO-free. Take a trip to your local hippie-mart and see.



My concern is the powerful and vocal anti-GMO special interest groups are spreading their hate-filled, uninformed and irrational message and silencing any dialog. Any question of their tactics, big money or dubious science is not allowed.

I want my politicians to be in my side and concerned about my health and not for Big Organics and the anit-GMO lobby.

Follow the money - who has the most to gain from a generic, "contains GMO food" label?

Yup, Big Organics. They're the same ones that try to silence any scientific study that points out all the flaws in their anti-GMO campaign. These liberals are completely built an spreading irrational fear - just like hoplophobes. Plus, their anti-GMO "studies" are all funded by Big Organics.

These liberal do-gooders ignore all the positive benefits, all the lives saved and all the children fed because they obviously hate the freedom we have in America to innovate and create a better life for ourselves using the brains God gave us for scientific development.

I, for one, do not want to live in that form of oppressive society ruled by Big Organics and liberal anti-GMO special interests.