Guns in Bars?

[rambone]

If we are going to use fear as our basis for inventing laws for what you can & can't do, then we will live in a very unfree society indeed.

I would venture to say more people have gone on killing sprees being sober than they have drunk at a bar. Don't allow your fear to lull you into supporting liberal anti-gun laws.

If we are so afraid of being shot we should just ban all guns. That will make us safe. Eh? Can we get a show of hands?

If we justify having Big Brother stick its nose in because "we are afraid of what might happen" if somebody had a 0.09 BAC and had a weapon on him, then we are pathetic defenders of the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution. If somebody commits a crime, they will have to own up to it.

Think of the implications of Government regulating how much alcohol can be in your system while you carry a weapon. At any time, and any place, you can pulled out of a crowd, ID'ed, breathalyzed, and harassed, all with little or no actual justification to have done so. Do you really want a police presence in bars?

What about those of us who don't want to be mugged or carjacked after a night out with friends? What about bartenders who have to stay out the latest and close up the bar? What about a woman who is followed into the parking lot by a drunk patron with evil intentions? IT HAPPENS, and it happens more often than you think, because crimes stopped from happening are rarely reported.

Think twice before allowing Government to be our conscience. Realize who these gun laws will hurt. Like all other gun-control laws, they will probably have more of an effect in disarming decent people than it will in preventing crime.

 

[Prometheus]

Right, but I'm not responsible for what they do outside where I work.

No you are responsible for RESPONDING to what they do. *I assume you are bouncer*

I do look. It's my job to look, to know who is in the bar and what they're up to as well as what and who they have with them. I don't live in a fantasy world but come spend a night at work with me and you won't see a lot of people who you would assume carry. Now I know assumptions are a bad thing, but I've spent enough time around the average college kid, and many gun owners / carriers to make what I feel is an educated guess.

My friends and I would have more armament on us than a IMPD response team most nights we went out back in those days... bouncers were always the same, they'd never pat us 'geeks and nerds' down. In our Khakis and polos... lol. One night they brought in wands (I forget the reason) and we were going off like mad "keys" my "lighter" "belt buckle", lol. I went in with a H&K USP 45 and a spare mag. Most everyone else just had BUGs (642's or P32's). Meanwhile they were making everyone else go back to their cars with their pocket knives

Yes, but it makes sense. You pick a designated driver, why not a designated carrier??

You pick one driver per car... How many lives do you have worth saving?

Sorry, but having one person to defend an entire group is silly. Usually when a group gets robbed it's by multiple badguys.

Just because you are carrying, doesn't mean you have to fiddle with your gun. Strap it on and leave it be.

On a side note, most of us here don't go out and */-*faced anymore. If I feel like actually drinking, I'll do it at home.

Personal responsibility.

The idea of banning guns at bars stems from the same logic as banning guns in walmart, church or a persons home.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Before I am flamed I realize that having a beer does not mean getting drunk. But if you are too drunk to drive, you are also too drunk to properly defend yourself with a gun.

I agree as well... BUT, the State of Indiana has left it up to the law abiding citizen to use their judgement. Since blood is not flowing on bar floors here in Indiana I guess it goes to show citizens CAN have common sense.

Did you know that there was a final section to our current code that specified a blood ETOH level for considering carrying while intoxicated? That last section was left out of the code as it now stands. I found the bill once online and thought it was the LAW here for the longest time. But it was never ratified. I posted it here once. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it! the current code ends at #24. Number 25 was never added to the law for some reason:

Sec. 25. A person who knowingly or intentionally carries
a loaded handgun or an unloaded handgun accompanied by
ammunition:
(1) in a vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the
person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place
of business; and
(2) while the person:
(A) is intoxicated (as defined in IC 9-13-2-86); or
(B) has at least ten-hundredths percent (0.10%) of alcohol
by weight in grams in:
(i) one hundred (100) milliliters of the person's blood; or
(ii) two hundred ten (210) liters of the person's breath;
commits unlawful possession of a handgun, a Class B
misdemeanor.

You will note that current IC ends at section 24…. 25 does not exist.

 

[public servant]

If we are going to use fear as our basis for inventing laws for what you can & can't do, then we will live in a very unfree society indeed.

Don't allow your fear to lull you into supporting liberal anti-gun laws.

If we justify having Big Brother stick its nose in because "we are afraid of what might happen" if somebody had a 0.09 BAC and had a weapon on him, then we are pathetic defenders of the 2nd Amendment and the Constitution. If somebody commits a crime, they will have to own up to it.

At any time, and any place, you can pulled out of a crowd, ID'ed, breathalyzed, and harassed, all with little or no actual justification to have done so. Do you really want a police presence in bars?

Think twice before allowing Government to be our conscience. Realize who these gun laws will hurt. Like all other gun-control laws, they will probably have more of an effect in disarming decent people than it will in preventing crime.

So are you condoning drinking to a BAC of > than .08 and carrying a firearm? Or do you just object to anyone telling you that you can't?

I don't believe it needs to be made a law...but I would think it would be common sense. But perhaps not.

I wouldn't dream of telling you that you can't...but you do know that you really shouldn't...right???

 

[jd3772000]

I agree as well... BUT, the State of Indiana has left it up to the law abiding citizen to use their judgement. Since blood is not flowing on bar floors here in Indiana I guess it goes to show citizens CAN have common sense.

Did you know that there was a final section to our current code that specified a blood ETOH level for considering carrying while intoxicated? That last section was left out of the code as it now stands. I found the bill once online and thought it was the LAW here for the longest time. But it was never ratified. I posted it here once. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it! the current code ends at #24. Number 25 was never added to the law for some reason:

Sec. 25. A person who knowingly or intentionally carries
a loaded handgun or an unloaded handgun accompanied by
ammunition:
(1) in a vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the
person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place
of business; and
(2) while the person:
(A) is intoxicated (as defined in IC 9-13-2-86); or
(B) has at least ten-hundredths percent (0.10%) of alcohol
by weight in grams in:
(i) one hundred (100) milliliters of the person's blood; or
(ii) two hundred ten (210) liters of the person's breath;
commits unlawful possession of a handgun, a Class B
misdemeanor.

You will note that current IC ends at section 24…. 25 does not exist.

^ Good stuff.

 

[Steve]

Back in the day, I was bouncer at some of the "finest show clubs" in NE indpls. For 4 years, I CC'd a .44 mag or a .357 with a .38 on my ankle. I knew many of the "patrons" CC'd as well and had no problem from them. Sorry to say that mgt disapproved of OC and if someone showed up like that, I was to ask them to lock the weapon in their car or leave the premisis. Something about making the other "patrons" nervous.

The only trouble I had was, occasionaly when I would "escort" someone out of the building ( or hurl them into public as Ron White would say), some folks would think I needed addtional assitance and brandish their weapon. Guess who the next person headed to the door was?

CCing in a bar is no different the CCing in a store, a library, gas station, or any other public place. The exception is that you can't drink at those other places. GUNS AND ACHOLOL DON'T MIX!!. Period! No discussion, no what if's. Not even 1 beer. Sorry if this offends some of you, but I've seen and lived thru that deadly combination. If you want or need a beer that bad, go buy a 6 pack and take it home and enjoy it. Even the slightest impairment is unacceptable when it comes to life and death decisions. And that's what carrying a handgun can come to. Believe me. I've been there, seen it, survived it, and bought the T shirt.

So much for the soapbox. To paraphrase Patrick Henry, "I know not what others may do , but as for me, give me CC or give me death!"

 

[public servant]

Back in the day, I was bouncer at some of the "finest show clubs" in NE indpls. For 4 years, I CC'd a .44 mag or a .357 with a .38 on my ankle. I knew many of the "patrons" CC'd as well and had no problem from them. Sorry to say that mgt disapproved of OC and if someone showed up like that, I was to ask them to lock the weapon in their car or leave the premisis. Something about making the other "patrons" nervous.

The only trouble I had was, occasionaly when I would "escort" someone out of the building ( or hurl them into public as Ron White would say), some folks would think I needed addtional assitance and brandish their weapon. Guess who the next person headed to the door was?

CCing in a bar is no different the CCing in a store, a library, gas station, or any other public place. The exception is that you can't drink at those other places. GUNS AND ACHOLOL DON'T MIX!!. Period! No discussion, no what if's. Not even 1 beer. Sorry if this offends some of you, but I've seen and lived thru that deadly combination. If you want or need a beer that bad, go buy a 6 pack and take it home and enjoy it. Even the slightest impairment is unacceptable when it comes to life and death decisions. And that's what carrying a handgun can come to. Believe me. I've been there, seen it, survived it, and bought the T shirt.

So much for the soapbox. To paraphrase Patrick Henry, "I know not what others may do , but as for me, give me CC or give me death!"

 

[kingnereli]

Why is it such a difficult concept that people can drink and carry responsibly? I may have one drink (occasionally two) with a meal. Thereby, not even flirting with the line where good judgement may be compromised. That is the case whether I am at home or at a public establishment. Let me tell you. Alcohol and carrying mixes just fine when done responsibly. Under no circumstances do I disarm. Especially something as trivial as an alcoholic beverage. Let us not project the notion of drunken carrying on everyone who chooses to drink while carrying.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Why is it such a difficult concept that people can drink and carry responsibly? I may have one drink (occasionally two) with a meal. Thereby, not even flirting with the line where good judgement may be compromised. That is the case whether I am at home or at a public establishment. Let me tell you. Alcohol and carrying mixes just fine when done responsibly. Under no circumstances do I disarm. Especially something as trivial as an alcoholic beverage. Let us not project the notion of drunken carrying on everyone who chooses to drink while carrying.

It isn't a difficult concept. People would rather be in charge of you rather than you be in charge of yourself. Why think for yourself when others are so quick to think for you... especially when they KNOW better. HA!

Then again, maybe they're gauging their own alcohol tolerance by having one or two beers. Lightweights.

I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I've one or two beers and been able to not think clearly.

 

[rambone]

I find that often, the same people who are irresponsible drinkers are the same people who:
​

are irresponsible eaters.
are irresponsible drivers.
are irresponsible parents.
are irresponsible workers.
are irresponsible spenders.
are irresponsible savers.
are irresponsible thinkers.
etc. etc. etc.

We now make the fundamental choice. We can make a law for every distasteful behavior, or we can stick with punishing people after they commit (or attempt to commit) an actual, tangible crime.

Some people are just irresponsible. That doesn't mean I want the Government to raise their kids for them, keep track of their finances for them, make their decisions for them, and so forth.

The irresponsible people will just have to be punished for their crimes, once they commit them. Making laws to accommodate for a few bad apples will only oppress the liberty of the remaining majority of good people.

So are you condoning drinking to a BAC of > than .08 and carrying a firearm? Or do you just object to anyone telling you that you can't?

I'll call it defending a right. I'm not condoning or encouraging anything. Lately I've found myself defending behaviors I wouldn't ever participate in personally.

As we already know, Indiana suffers no epidemic of deranged gun owners shooting up bars. It can (and does) work if we simply let the people live free, instead of creating further gun-control laws, and punishing them for crimes the *might* commit.

If a guy at a bar is being unruly, there are already a ton of laws on the books to deal with him. Disorderly conduct, trespassing (if he wont leave), public intoxication, etc. If he wants to shoot up the place, then no earthly law will stop him. Those laws will prevent good guys like you and me from saving the day.

I simply see it as one more step towards this:

​

 

[mrjarrell]

David Codrea, at The Examiner addressed this very issue today. From Ohio we have this:

Let's leave Arizona and look in on the Buckeye State, where an armed robbery has been thwarted--in a bar:

The retired 4th District officer and the owner opened fire, striking and disabling the teens...

Neighbors said this was the last bar you would want to try to rob. It's a hangout for law enforcement and ex-police officers.
​

Huh. They're obviously armed while hanging out there. None of them ever take a nip while unwinding at a cop bar? And they're not shooting up the joint every night?
What superhuman quality of self restraint must government employment imbue them with?

The thing is, had it been an establishment full of just plain ordinary "law-abiding citizens," things could have gone down very differently--because Ohio law doesn't permit non-cops to have a firearm in a bar.

Regular folks can't even go into a bar while armed, but cops can. And I think we can be pretty sure they aren't sipping tea and eating crumpets. Are they any better than a regular Joe? There should be no laws against going to a bar and having a couple of drinks while carrying. Getting drunk's a different matter entirely. We certainly don't need double standards like Ohio, and there usually is one in every law.

 

[cce1302]

We now make the fundamental choice. We can make a law for every distasteful behavior, or we can stick with punishing people after they commit (or attempt to commit) an actual, tangible crime. ​

The irresponsible people will just have to be punished for their crimes, once they commit them. Making laws to accommodate for a few bad apples will only oppress the liberty of the remaining majority of good people.


I'll call it defending a right. I'm not condoning or encouraging anything. Lately I've found myself defending behaviors I wouldn't ever participate in personally.

As we already know, Indiana suffers no epidemic of deranged gun owners shooting up bars. It can (and does) work if we simply let the people live free, instead of creating further gun-control laws, and punishing them for crimes the *might* commit.

If a guy at a bar is being unruly, there are already a ton of laws on the books to deal with him. Disorderly conduct, trespassing (if he wont leave), public intoxication, etc. If he wants to shoot up the place, then no earthly law will stop him. Those laws will prevent good guys like you and [me] from saving the day.

Pretty much this. We also need to stop letting alcohol and its influence be a crutch for harmful behavior. "well, he was drunk when he ran over the family, so we'll give him 2 years for vehicular homicide." If he were sober and did it on purpose, they'd convict him of murder, but somehow, since he chose to drink himself into oblivion first, his sentence is lighter.

 

[public servant]

We also need to stop letting alcohol and its influence be a crutch for harmful behavior. "well, he was drunk when he ran over the family, so we'll give him 2 years for vehicular homicide." If he were sober and did it on purpose, they'd convict him of murder, but somehow, since he chose to drink himself into oblivion first, his sentence is lighter.

Absolutely agreed. This is why I drink (when I seldom do) in the comfort and safety of my own home.

 

[finity]

I work at a bar (college town) and If I saw anyone drinking and carrying I would probably ask them to lock it in the car. Not trying to violate their rights. But how do I know which patrons are responsible gun owners and who aren't? I have to protect myself and my customers.

How do you know who's a responsible gun owner ANY TIME? How do the police know who is a responsible gun-owner? Wouldn't it be better if we just ALL locked our guns away in the first place?

If you had others in the bar who were carrying, YOU wouldn't need to protect as many of your customers as you would if you had made them lock it in their car (for their own good & that of society, of course ).

I find that often, the same people who are irresponsible drinkers are the same people who:​

are irresponsible eaters.
are irresponsible drivers.
are irresponsible parents.
are irresponsible workers.
are irresponsible spenders.
are irresponsible savers.
are irresponsible thinkers.
etc. etc. etc.

We now make the fundamental choice. We can make a law for every distasteful behavior, or we can stick with punishing people after they commit (or attempt to commit) an actual, tangible crime.

Some people are just irresponsible. That doesn't mean I want the Government to raise their kids for them, keep track of their finances for them, make their decisions for them, and so forth.

The irresponsible people will just have to be punished for their crimes, once they commit them. Making laws to accommodate for a few bad apples will only oppress the liberty of the remaining majority of good people.


I'll call it defending a right. I'm not condoning or encouraging anything. Lately I've found myself defending behaviors I wouldn't ever participate in personally.

As we already know, Indiana suffers no epidemic of deranged gun owners shooting up bars. It can (and does) work if we simply let the people live free, instead of creating further gun-control laws, and punishing them for crimes the *might* commit.

If a guy at a bar is being unruly, there are already a ton of laws on the books to deal with him. Disorderly conduct, trespassing (if he wont leave), public intoxication, etc. If he wants to shoot up the place, then no earthly law will stop him. Those laws will prevent good guys like you and me from saving the day.

tried to rep you but I've got to spread some around first.

Anyway...+1

 

[Lucas156]

drink at home? repped rambone

 

[bblicharski]

i dont have any problems carrying while at a bar but heavy intoxication and firearms do not mix, a few drinks no problems.

 

[dwh79]

I love the fact AZ appears to have changed there law. I carry in bars many a time. I also drink and carry.

 

[StarKing]

I work at a bar (college town) and If I saw anyone drinking and carrying I would probably ask them to lock it in the car. Not trying to violate their rights. But how do I know which patrons are responsible gun owners and who aren't? I have to protect myself and my customers. I doubt anyone has ever carried where I work, however it would make me very un-easy. Alcohol and firearms don't mix well in my book, just like alcohol and cars, and alcohol and fire works

If they have a permit, it's a pretty good bet they're one of the responsible ones.

 

[revance]

I also fall into the boat of people who simply don't drink in bars. I haven't since college. As far as I'm concerned, I have a lot more fun at home where the drinks don't cost $8 and you don't have to worry about how you will get home. When I do go to a bar with friends, having my gun is a good excuse to be DD and not have to spend $50 on drinks.

I don't have a problem with someone carrying in a bar and having a drink. However if you are intoxicated you should not have a firearm. I think that should fall under personal judgment and responsibility. However, I think if you are found guilty of any crimes caused by your drunkenness (disorderly conduct, DUI, etc.) and you had a firearm on you at the time, there should be a significant additional charge. That way people can exercise their own judgment. If you weren't sober enough to stay out of trouble, you weren't sober enough to have that gun.

 

[Nobudy]

More than once I wished I had CCed in some of the bars we frequent, My wife usually tells me "We are going out to sing and have fun, leave it at home " in that sweet little voice that implies " or you ain't gettin' any latter." More than once she's cleaned blood of of herself or the bar from fights, and takes that in stride, Hell, once she asked me if we had bail money cause she was going to "Mess that b**ch up if she sais one more word to me!" It would have been justified in MHO.