Gun views of the United Methodist Church

[boozoo]

I guess having grown up in a Methodist church in the farm country of Texas (where nearly everyone did used to have a 30-30 or a shotgun hanging in the back of the truck), my experience with the Methodist faith was far less alarming.

I've also been to several other UMC churches in my travels and not been as alarmed as what I'm seeing on here this morning. How many national church org's DON'T have a pie in the sky mentality? The problem is when you have any group that thinks they have a concentration of power. The temptation to try to wield it will always mislead them from what *I* think their true mission ought to be.

And as another poster said - I've found more often than not it's the people and not the organization that make a local church's experience what it is. You're going to find cliques and other such silliness in practically every group you run into - not just churches.

 

[Mr. Habib]

So does this mean I cann't cc in service this Sunday?

On another note, do they not know (or care) that more people die at the hands of doctors (surgeons) that guns?

This means you should OC this Sunday!

 

[Titanium Man]

I think we all know a lot of great people who are members of or attend a UMC somewhere, but as my Dad was a Treasurer for one for many years, he use to tell me of the checks he wrote monthly going to the their council/regional/national authority over the UMC. It's a big chunk, and I always remembered how he said, the church, at the local level, could have done so much good, if they didn't have to send that percentage on. The Minister was very much for it, as his retirement portion depended on what was sent in. It's not the local people or even doctrine, it's where the money goes after it's thrown in the plate.

 

[henktermaat]

Their headquarters are located at Meridian/456 on the north-east corner, if any of you wants to go there and express your opinion.

301 Pennsylvania Parkway, Suite 300 - Google Maps

 

[hoosiertriangle]

There is a great deal of ignorance being sprayed forth in this thread, but there is some truth. I've been a part of the United Methodist Church all of my 27 years and been very saddened by many of the Church's positions. As with many large organizations (+15 million members around the world), there is a wide divergence on opinion. The UMC in the 50's was infected by modern liberal thinking, especially in its seminaries and its leadership at a global level. That thinking is what has produce the resolution originally linked to.

The Methodist Church is governed by the General Conference which is composed of 1,000 delegates from all across the globe. When the General Conference votes on laws or resolutions, majority governs and that position cannot be changed until the next General Conference. In short, many many many resolutions are passed which never should be, but they are because many of the delegates who go keep their head in the sand and don't do their job, which is to read the legislation and think about it. In many ways, just like Congress. You shouldn't judge people based on their organizations global views, sometimes people are in the minority and working to change those positions. I though we as gun owners detested being labeled based on other peoples actions. The same is true with your local UMC congregation and its members. Get to know them and if you must judge them, judge them based on your personal interactions. The vast majority of Methodist's don't even know there is a Book of Resolutions or what is in them, because in all honest, nobody cares after its passed except some of the global methodist agencies, which as I said above, tend to be extremely liberal already.

 

[BloodEclipse]

There is a great deal of ignorance being sprayed forth in this thread, but there is some truth. I've been a part of the United Methodist Church all of my 27 years and been very saddened by many of the Church's positions. As with many large organizations (+15 million members around the world), there is a wide divergence on opinion. The UMC in the 50's was infected by modern liberal thinking, especially in its seminaries and its leadership at a global level. That thinking is what has produce the resolution originally linked to.

The Methodist Church is governed by the General Conference which is composed of 1,000 delegates from all across the globe. When the General Conference votes on laws or resolutions, majority governs and that position cannot be changed until the next General Conference. In short, many many many resolutions are passed which never should be, but they are because many of the delegates who go keep their head in the sand and don't do their job, which is to read the legislation and think about it. In many ways, just like Congress. You shouldn't judge people based on their organizations global views, sometimes people are in the minority and working to change those positions. I though we as gun owners detested being labeled based on other peoples actions. The same is true with your local UMC congregation and its members. Get to know them and if you must judge them, judge them based on your personal interactions. The vast majority of Methodist's don't even know there is a Book of Resolutions or what is in them, because in all honest, nobody cares after its passed except some of the global methodist agencies, which as I said above, tend to be extremely liberal already.

The problem is the money, that is given to the church by it's unwitting members, is used to support these anti-gun agendas.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Touchy subject... I've encountered Methodists from all sides of the political spectrum. Most of them, I am glad that I can call them my brother or sister. I do not wish to wage a theological war/debate on a gun forum but I think I'll share my two cents.

The UMC is only one subgroup of the Methodists as a whole. Each Methodist group is quite a bit different than the other. There are Free Methodists, Church of the Nazarenes (not to be confused with the Nazarene Charismatic Movement), AME Church and many many others.

The UMC suffers from the same problems, in my opinion as a denomination that is close to home to me... the Disciples of Christ/Church of Christ movement. The "clergy" for whatever reason is exponentially more liberal in doctrine and politics than the actual membership itself. What does that mean? The church as a body wants the church to go one way, the Seminaries, public figure heads of the church and either the church hierarchy (HA!) or the big names within the movement want the organization to go in a different direction.

It's all very frustrating to the person who loves ecumenicism. It validates (somewhat) the claims of the person who is mildly or fervently anti-religion because it makes us look like a bunch of biquering fools. Of course, any group of more than one person suffers from the same problem.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

Too true and if many knew what their dollars went to they'd likely leave their local church or force their church to stop paying its apportionments (money paid to the state, national, and global church). Here in Indiana, the amount paid to support the work of upper levels of the church is 10% of the money collected. So for every 10 dollars I donate to the local church, $1 dollar goes to fund the state, national, and global church efforts.

To be fair, not all the UMC's national and global agencies are problematic. The United Methodist Committee on Relief (UMCOR) is probably one of the best at helping bring relief to disaster areas. That $1 dollar pays for UMCOR's administrative costs so that every dollar donated directly to say Haiti through UMCOR goes there.

The problem is the money, that is given to the church by it's unwitting members, is used to support these anti-gun agendas.

 

[308jake]

This is nothing new for the Methodist church.

They have been associated with the Anti-Gun groups for years.

That's is the gospel. They are far left liberals that want to control their people.

 

[furbymac]

develop advocacy groups within local congregations to advocate for the eventual reduction of the availability of guns in society with a particular emphasis upon handguns, handgun ammunition, assault weapons, automatic weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and guns that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal detection devices. These groups can be linked to community-based, state, and national organizations working on gun and violence issues;

must be talking about the ninja glock unless there is a gun i haven't heard of yet

 

[Captain Bligh]

..
The Methodist Church is governed by the General Conference which is composed of 1,000 delegates from all across the globe. When the General Conference votes on laws or resolutions, majority governs and that position cannot be changed until the next General Conference...

Your entire post was very well written. I am a Methodist PK and an adult member for about thirty years before going into exile with another denomination. The truth of the matter is that most organized religious organizations are political entitites to one degree or another. Resolutions are no more representative of their members in the pew than is each law coming out of Washington representative of my belief.

If you want to find a church that is 100% representative of your beliefs, I suggest you search for a non-denominational church. There will be no national entity to pass a resolution you don't agree with. Even then, I'll bet you won't be a member long because non-denoms are political, too, only on a much smaller scale. Sooner or later they'll take a position contrary to yours and you'll have to decide.

 

[Redemption]

My Dad is a Methodist preacher and he doesn't have a problem with guns. I saw several jew groups on the list of anti gunners posted on the first page. Should we call them out as a whole also? I wonder what Zellman would say?

 

[sonrider657]

The UMC, as a denomination has grown liberal to the point of apostacy. John Wesley would be appalled.

I grew up in a UMC congregation but left when the Lord saved me.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

National and International church organizations can only do what their member churches will stand for. My little home church was part of the UCC for many years. They didn't even agree with all of the UCC's positions when they JOINED them, according to my grandmother, and in the 90s finally voted to leave because of some of the liberal views of the organization. If you're a member of your church, and it's organized like mine, your view does count. And if the big boys don't want to listen, you can always tell them to pay their own bills.

 

[Captain Bligh]

The UCC is a congregational system. Churches own their own buildings and have their own say what to follow or not from the national church. The Methodist church has a different structure. In the UMC, all property and buildings are owned by the larger body, not the local congregations.

When deciding to leave the UCC, a congregation may stay together as a body and continue to worship in their own building which they own. Sometimes congregations fracture, with the majority keeping the building, and the other half going to start a new UCC or non-denom someplace else (depending upon who held the majority in the vote.)

In the Methodist Church, a decision to totally separate oneself from the national church is more likely to entail leaving your friends and the building in which you have been worshipping. In my personal experience, when I left the UMC, I found that a very hard thing to do...to say goodbye to friends with whom I had been worshipping for a number of years and start a new worship experience outside of my support group with strangers.

My dad was a UMC pastor before his death, held a LTCH, and had a bunch of guns, BTW.

 

[antsi]

My Dad is a Methodist preacher and he doesn't have a problem with guns. I saw several jew groups on the list of anti gunners posted on the first page. Should we call them out as a whole also?

I certainly would not judge any individual Methodist by this. If your Dad is protesting/dissenting against these policies, then more power to him.

However, these anti-gun-owner positions are official statements of the governing body of the church. It is much different than just one nutjob or fringe breakaway group advocating this. I do think it is fair to judge the overall church organization by the official statements of the authorities that run the church.

Similarly, if one Republican from New Jersey is an anti-RKBA tool, he's just being a tool. But if the Republicans officially inocorporate anti-RKBA planks into their overall policy platform, then I think it's fair to say the Republican Party is anti-RKBA.

If Jews had a single central authority that governed their religion, and they came out anti-RKBA and funding a gun ban organization, then yes I would have a problem with that, too. The correct analogy here would be saying that a few liberal/statist Christian denominations contributed to the gun ban group; in that case no I would not judge all Christians but I would object to the actions of those denominations that were involved.

 

[antsi]

The problem is the money, that is given to the church by it's unwitting members, is used to support these anti-gun agendas.

Bingo. I would have a major problem paying my tithe if I knew it was going to support this kind of propaganda.

 

[ArmyMP]

WTF i mean WTF

"Assoc. of Japanese Families of Gun Violence Victims in the U. S. A"



is there really a big problem with people still shooting japs? I mean seriously my grandfather got paid in the 40's to shoot at them.... i didnt think people still did.....