Gun + School = Bad, but what about....

[indytechnerd]

Mods..if this needs moved, please do so.

We're all in agreement that carrying a gun into a school would be a "bad thing", even though we may not agree with the law. Every day, someone posts in a thread about having to leave their EDC behind, or park a block away, or jump through some other hoop in order to legally step foot on school grounds. My question is how many of you still have that Gerber or Spyderco clipped to your front pocket?

I carry this little badboy all the time, including into the school when I drop off or pick up my kids.

Here's the reasoning behind my question...

IC 35-47-5-2.5
Possession of a knife on school property
Sec. 2.5. (a) As used in this section, "knife" means an instrument that:
(1) consists of a sharp edged or sharp pointed blade capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds; and
(2) is intended to be used as a weapon.
(b) The term includes a dagger, dirk, poniard, stiletto, switchblade knife, or gravity knife.
(c) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally possesses a knife on:
(1) school property (as defined in IC 35-41-1-24.7);
(2) a school bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-8); or
(3) a special purpose bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-10);
commits a Class B misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the person has a previous unrelated conviction under this section and a Class D felony if the offense results in bodily injury or serious bodily injury to another person.
(d) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a knife:
(1) if:
(A) the knife is provided to the person by the school corporation or possession of the knife is authorized by the school corporation; and
(B) the person uses the knife for a purpose authorized by the school corporation; or
(2) if the knife is secured in a motor vehicle.

 

[Lex Concord]

Do you intend to use it as a weapon?

While it seems that mens rea has largely been ignored in recent years (i.e. what matters is whether you technically broke the law, not whether you had criminal intent), I would still think that this:

(2) is intended to be used as a weapon.

Would be the focal point of my defense, as it is the only piece that appears to allow for any interpretation.

My intent with carrying knives is to have a cutting tool available should I need one, not a weapon....that's what the gun is for

Anyway, I have no worries here as I haven't had cause to set foot on "school grounds" since I graduated many moons ago.

Where my kids are educated, I am the administrator, part-time teacher, guidance counselor, lunch server, hall monitor, and security force.

 

[MrsGungho]

According to that, the knife can be left in a car though. Good to know.

Also I don't intend to use it as a weapon, it is simply a cutting tool. It's buried so deep in my purse that I have trouble finding it, I doubt the school will see it.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Well, I've stood and talked with a "Dean" of a large middle school here in town with the pocket-knife belt-clip plainly visible. I've also dropped off flowers several times to that same school...was looked at by the attendance lady and all the front office folks.

No one has ever said a word to me...

Personally, I'd LOVE for any kind of LEO to tell of an instance where a "regular person" was arrested for the pocket knife / weapon issue at a school.

Someone who was causing other kinds of trouble and arrested for that...THEN They find a knife and ad an additional charge? I bet that's happened, yes.

I can almost guarantee that half the male employees/teachers where my wife works have some kind of pocket knife on them. And probably nearly as many women have a tiny little Swiss Army Knife in their purse, too. ...something like this: Victorinox Swiss Army - Swiss Lite Pocket Knife

For me while I'm at work? I carry several "knives" and knife-like tools into schools all the time. But, I'm also authorized to be in the school, and authorized to have the tools with me that I need to complete my job. Knawing some 1/4" OD Teflon tubing in half is a LOT harder than cutting it, let me tell you.

-J-

 

[Bunnykid68]

If you are picking up a child from school and are carrying legally you may be on school grounds in your vehicle.

 

[indytechnerd]

If you are picking up a child from school and are carrying legally you may be on school grounds in your vehicle.

But, I have to physically enter the school to pick them up from (and drop them off at) the before/after school care.

I've spoken to the principal, teachers, even a fellow parent who's a LEO while having my knife on me. It's never been a problem, but one can see where it could become a problem.

I don't intend to use it as a weapon, but if need be, I sure as hell will.

 

[Buckaroo]

Mods..if this needs moved, please do so.

We're all in agreement that carrying a gun into a school would be a "bad thing", even though we may not agree with the law.

Bull****!

Repeal the law and re institute the constitution.

Buckaroo

 

[lovemachine]

I'd like to know this too. I always carry my small Gerber pocket knife. I've even carried it when I was still in high school Always down deep in my pocket when I was in school. Whenever I have to go into my wife's school, she's a teacher, I still bring it in with me.

 

[rich8483]

this is an interesting topic to me as i have recently started bicycling (which is not an operated motor vehicle). there is a nice bicycle path by me but it runs right by a school. (well within the 1000 feet school zone rule. more like 10 feet.) i cannot carry a gun b/c of this. can i carry a knife? i would like to carry a slightly larger knife and intend it for self defense as my gun would obviously not be with me for a couple of hours.

 

[jdmack79]

this is an interesting topic to me as i have recently started bicycling (which is not an operated motor vehicle). there is a nice bicycle path by me but it runs right by a school. (well within the 1000 feet school zone rule. more like 10 feet.) i cannot carry a gun b/c of this. can i carry a knife? i would like to carry a slightly larger knife and intend it for self defense as my gun would obviously not be with me for a couple of hours.

As long as you don't stop at the school I think your ok with the gun. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[Que]

I think we can sometimes talk ourselves out of our rights or in this case, abilities. We need a license to legally carry a gun and if we are caught carrying a gun in a school, our license can be suspended or revoked. We are not required to possess a license to carry a knife. If we are caught carrying a knife in a school, most likely the principle will ask to use it to sharpen some pencils. In the worst case scenario, a reasonable person will know there is a difference between the ability of a person to cause harm with a gun versus a knife.

 

[bigiron]

OH MY GOD!!!!! i went in my kids school today to watch my son do a presentation and i carried my benchmade mchenry and williams! i also drive a school bus for said school part-time and i carry the knife on the bus as well. does this mean i'm a BG? nope, its not a weapon. i believe its one of those laws that would only be enforced if you were intending it to be a weapon and not a tool. like if a kid brings it to school with intent, then its against the law. you would probably have a hard time finding someone to actually stuff you in the back of a crown vic for having a 3.5 in blade in your pocket, but then again who knows. just don't take down a teacher in the hall with your gerber and you'll likely be fine, IMHO.

ps: IANAL and IDNSAHILN! but i am a bus driver and that makes me pretty damn cool!

 

[Scutter01]

We're all in agreement that carrying a gun into a school would be a "bad thing",

No, we're not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

there is a nice bicycle path by me but it runs right by a school. (well within the 1000 feet school zone rule. more like 10 feet.) i cannot carry a gun b/c of this.

The 1000 foot rule does not apply if you have an LTCH (which you must have to carry anyway). However, you still cannot carry onto school property.

 

[bigiron]

No, we're not.

you sir are.........CORRECT!

 

[dbd870]

No, we're not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

That was my reaction as well as soon as I read that statement.

 

[indytechnerd]

No, we're not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

you sir are.........CORRECT!

That was my reaction as well as soon as I read that statement.

If you all disagree that carrying a gun into a school would be a "bad thing", why haven't you carried a gun into a school? Maybe I needed to word the statement better, but until it's not a felony to carry a gun into a school, it remains a "bad thing".

 

[Que]

That was my reaction as well as soon as I read that statement.

Okay, what if the OP said "illegal" instead of "bad thing"? I still would like to get to the point about how we read into the law and handcuff ourselves. I've seen this happen in many posts. People will read a code or statute and then do something like start leaving their pocket knife in the car in the lockbox, next to their gun. Is that necessary?

 

[jsgolfman]

The "intended to be used as a weapon" language doesn't refer to what use YOU plan on making of the knife, it refers to the definition of knife itself and the fact that one of the intended uses for knives is as a weapon.

 

[Joe Williams]

The "intended to be used as a weapon" language doesn't refer to what use YOU plan on making of the knife, it refers to the definition of knife itself and the fact that one of the intended uses for knives is as a weapon.

Where does it say that in the Code? Can you paste it? I've not been able to find it, and it's important to me, since my wife carries a knife to work (and NOT a little mini-pen knife). It's proven quite useful for cutting open boxes and stuff like that.

 

[bigiron]

Where does it say that in the Code? Can you paste it? I've not been able to find it, and it's important to me, since my wife carries a knife to work (and NOT a little mini-pen knife). It's proven quite useful for cutting open boxes and stuff like that.

OH MY GOD! YOUR WIFE CARRIES A BOX CUTTER TO WORK! TERRORIST ALERT!!!! CALL THE AIR MARSHALS! I'M GETTING MY BOB AND HEADING TO RALLY POINT 1.1! JOES WIFE HAS A KNIFE AT SCHOOL AND IT A BOX CUTTER! SCRAMBLE, I REPEAT, SCAMBLE! oh, wait, i'm over-reacting. even though your wifes knife is used for cutting open boxes that doesn't mean its a weapon until she uses it as such. i have a fly-swatter, i could use it to beat my kids but until i use it as a weapon its mearly a fly-swatter.