Group of 4 become first women to complete Marine Corps infantry combat training

[Jludo]

lol

Physical Fitness Test = PFT
Infantry Training Batallion = ITB

The PFT is a minimum requirement which ALL Marines must pass at least once a year and several times through their introductory training which consists of Basic training and either ITB or MCT.

Right, PFT has lower standards for women but the ITB course does not. The ITB course is the one which these 3 women passed, correct?

 

[SeaCaptain49]

Someone get this man a crow.
It can't be a departure from previous military standards as there were no previous military standards for female marines in ITB. If you have it somewhere that the marines created new standards just for this class of ladies please let us know.

Military standards being that female requirements are lower than male requirements. That has always been the norm in all branches of the military.

If they require the same standards in infantry training, then yes, that's a departure from previous military norms.

Assuming that they are requiring the exact same qualification standards for both males and females in infantry training, then yes, you can watch me eat crow. Any idea what goes good with crow? I haven't eaten any in quite a few years.

 

[the1kidd03]

Right, PFT has lower standards for women but the ITB course does not. The ITB course is the one which these 3 women passed, correct?

I updated the post you quoted for more clarity.

The way I interpret what these articles I've seen are saying is that these female Marines were not previously held to the males PFT requirement, UNTIL they arrived at ITB for training. In other words, they were likely already Marines who had already completed their MOS school and volunteered to become infantry and take part in this. They were not fresh out of Basic training. It seems as though while at ITB, they have been expected to keep up with male PFT requirements.

During the 2 month long ITB training, Marines perform the PFT at least 3 times and the CFT once or twice. Women never used to be in ITB however, so there was no need to monitor different PFT standards.

 

[the1kidd03]

All this talk of ITB made me start to reminisce. Then I started thinking of Sgt. Maj. Vines This was one of the men in charge of SOI (MCT/ITB) for some time on the west coast. This is the Marine equivalent of Chuck Norris. All the tales you hear of Norris, there are just as many of this legendary Sgt. Maj. So, I had to look up and see what he is up to now, but apparently he retired.

On a lighter note, if any of you want some real USMC entertainment look through some of these stories of this man. This is some hilarious stuff and with each one I can imagine him doing it all, LOL. Grunt or not, he was a hard nosed devil like no other. This link had me
Sergeant Major Joe L. Vines - "The Legendary"

The 2nd comment down I was actually there for, LOL. He chewed the LT's hind end and when he was done the LT asked, "Where's my solute Sgt. Maj.?" To which he replied, "You want a salute? Climb up this ladder and get it" while pointing to the stack of rockers on his collar. Keep in mind this man is HUGE...like Dwayne Johnson plus 12" The man was untouchable. Although, he'll probably have a rough time adjusting to working in the civilian world if he does.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Actually back when I was in, I was in the first group to go through MCT. I was supposed to be a mortar man. I was in a group waiting to be picked up by a new company to go through SOI, not ITB. They held a formation one day and said everyone from here down (in formation) is now an 0311 and sent us through MCT, before attending SOI (school of infantry).

EDIT: Also to get a 300 PFT, you had to:

* 20 pull ups (no kipping)
* 80 sit ups in 2 minutes
* 3 miles in 18:00 minutes

Has the standard changed? Just curious.

 

[Jludo]

Actually back when I was in, I was in the first group to go through MCT. I was supposed to be a mortar man. I was in a group waiting to be picked up by a new company to go through SOI, not ITB. They held a formation one day and said everyone from here down (in formation) is now an 0311 and sent us through MCT, before attending SOI (school of infantry).

EDIT: Also to get a 300 PFT, you had to:

* 20 pull ups (no kipping)
* 80 sit ups in 2 minutes
* 3 miles in 18:00 minutes

Has the standard changed? Just curious.

Pretty doable, I haven't done a sit up in a long time but that's surely the easiest of them, right?

 

[Sgtusmc]

All this talk of ITB made me start to reminisce. Then I started thinking of Sgt. Maj. Vines This was one of the men in charge of SOI (MCT/ITB) for some time on the west coast. This is the Marine equivalent of Chuck Norris. All the tales you hear of Norris, there are just as many of this legendary Sgt. Maj. So, I had to look up and see what he is up to now, but apparently he retired.

On a lighter note, if any of you want some real USMC entertainment look through some of these stories of this man. This is some hilarious stuff and with each one I can imagine him doing it all, LOL. Grunt or not, he was a hard nosed devil like no other. This link had me
Sergeant Major Joe L. Vines - "The Legendary"

The 2nd comment down I was actually there for, LOL. He chewed the LT's hind end and when he was done the LT asked, "Where's my solute Sgt. Maj.?" To which he replied, "You want a salute? Climb up this ladder and get it" while pointing to the stack of rockers on his collar. Keep in mind this man is HUGE...like Dwayne Johnson plus 12" The man was untouchable. Although, he'll probably have a rough time adjusting to working in the civilian world if he does.

So this Sgt Major Vines was a spit n shine garrison Marine eh. I have no respect for these types. Where did he get his CAR at that I see on his chest cause all I see is that he never liked to get his cammies dirty.

Personal Information: In honor of the Marine Corps birthday we created this fan site dedicated to a true American hero and Marine Corps legend: Sergeant Major Joe L. Vines. An encounter with him is memorable to say the least. Sergeant Major Joe Louis Vines Sr. was born in Spring Hope, North Carolina in 1960. He enlisted in the Marine Corps in October 1979 and began Recruit Training at Parris Island, South Carolina in June 1980. Upon graduation in September, he was assigned to Infantry Training School (ITS) at Camp Pendleton, California. Following completion of ITS, he was selected to serve on Sea Duty. He was the Honor Graduate at Sea School and was meritoriously promoted to Private First Class in December 1980. He was then assigned to the Marine Detachment aboard the USS Midway, where he served as a Sentry, Corporal, and Sergeant of the Guard, Squad Leader, Section Leader and Non-Commissioned Officer in Charge of the ship's Color Guard. He was promoted to Lance Corporal in June of 1981 and meritoriously promoted to Corporal on October 2, 1981. He was selected as the USS Midway NCO of the Quarter in February 1982 and was promoted to Sergeant on January 1, 1983. In June of 1983, after serving two and a half years aboard the USS Midway, he was transferred to Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego, California as a Sea School Instructor. While there, he served as a Squad Advisor and Instructor at the Non-Commissioned Officers School. In June of 1984, he reenlisted and was transferred to Company F, 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines, where he served for over four years. During this time he served as a Squad Leader, Platoon Sergeant, Platoon Commander and the Non-Commissioned Officer in Charge of the Battalion and Regimental Color Guard. After completing two deployments, he was reassigned to Headquarters Company, 1st Marine Division, as the Division Fleet Assistance Program Coordinator. During this period he also served as an Administrative Clerk and a Section Leader. He was promoted to Staff Sergeant on October 1, 1988. He then volunteered to be an Instructor at the Non-Commissioned Officers Basic Course, at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, California. Upon completion of his duties at the Non-Commissioned Officers School, he volunteered to attend the Staff Non-Commissioned Officer's Academy in El Toro, California, where he graduated at the top of his class and received the Leadership Award and The Most Physically Fit Award. He was then reassigned to the 1st Marine Division Career Planner's Office, as the Division Human Affairs Chief in June of 1990. In January of 1991, he volunteered for duty as a Drill Instructor. Upon completion of Drill Instructor School in March, he graduated as the honor man of his class and also received The Leadership Award and The Most Physically Fit Award. He was assigned to Company K, 3rd Recruit Training Battalion, for duty as a Drill Instructor. During his tour he served one year as a Junior Drill Instructor, six months as a Senior Drill Instructor, and eighteen months as the Regimental Drill Master. It was during this tour he was recognized as 3d Battalion Drill Instructor of the Quarter and Regimental Drill Instructor of the Quarter. He was meritoriously promoted to Gunnery Sergeant on January 2, 1992. In December of 1992 he was selected as the Drill Instructor of the Year for the Western Recruiting Region. Upon completion of his duties a ...

These are accolades of a garrison Marine, not a field Marine.

 

[the1kidd03]

Actually back when I was in, I was in the first group to go through MCT. I was supposed to be a mortar man. I was in a group waiting to be picked up by a new company to go through SOI, not ITB. They held a formation one day and said everyone from here down (in formation) is now an 0311 and sent us through MCT, before attending SOI (school of infantry).

EDIT: Also to get a 300 PFT, you had to:

* 20 pull ups (no kipping)
* 80 sit ups in 2 minutes
* 3 miles in 18:00 minutes

Has the standard changed? Just curious.

Everything's the same except for situps is 100 for a perfect score.

 

[the1kidd03]

Pretty doable, I haven't done a sit up in a long time but that's surely the easiest of them, right?

The situps are typically the easiest for most. Usually people struggle between run time and pull ups the most.

 

[the1kidd03]

So this Sgt Major Vines was a spit n shine garrison Marine eh. I have no respect for these types. Where did he get his CAR at that I see on his chest cause all I see is that he never liked to get his cammies dirty.



These are accolades of a garrison Marine, not a field Marine.

You would be correct from my understanding. I didn't know him personally, but did meet him and was around him a number of times to witness his actions. He was squared away in the spit n shine fashion, but held everyone up to standards of conduct regardless. I have to commend him for that. Field service is a different story though.

With the way admin garbage is handled nowadays, you have to take on roles like DI and other more garrison duties to be able to promote. The scoring system is......screwy.

 

[Sgtusmc]

The situps are typically the easiest for most. Usually people struggle between run time and pull ups the most.

yep, situps were a gimme. My goal was to hit 140. I did 134 at the most. Pull ups, lots of guys struggled in dramatic ways. Just jump up there knock the 20 out and move on. Run times were also hilarious watching the agony of some guys just barely able to finish within 28 minutes or just fall out altogether.

I got chewed out one time after a PFT run by some 1st Sgt. I had sprinted past his wheezing ass at some point during the course without saying "By your leave". That's the type of garrison minded crap I hated.

 

[Sgtusmc]

You would be correct from my understanding. I didn't know him personally, but did meet him and was around him a number of times to witness his actions. He was squared away in the spit n shine fashion, but held everyone up to standards of conduct regardless. I have to commend him for that. Field service is a different story though.

With the way admin garbage is handled nowadays, you have to take on roles like DI and other more garrison duties to be able to promote. The scoring system is......screwy.

They called it "changing boats" when I was in. You either went to DI school, became a recruiter or went to Embassy guard duty somewhere (if you were tall enough).
I spent my whole six years in an infantry unit, became a E5 and didn't wish to re-enlist.

 

[gunowner930]

yep, situps were a gimme. My goal was to hit 140. I did 134 at the most. Pull ups, lots of guys struggled in dramatic ways. Just jump up there knock the 20 out and move on. Run times were also hilarious watching the agony of some guys just barely able to finish within 28 minutes or just fall out altogether.

I got chewed out one time after a PFT run by some 1st Sgt. I had sprinted past his wheezing ass at some point during the course without saying "By your leave". That's the type of garrison minded crap I hated.

I always enjoyed how SNCOs running PFTs would allow their peers to get away with all sorts of comical kipping and 1/4 way down pullups, or the idiot fatboys who would sprint off of the starting line only to be wheezing 50 yds later and run a 30+ min time.

 

[the1kidd03]

They called it "changing boats" when I was in. You either went to DI school, became a recruiter or went to Embassy guard duty somewhere (if you were tall enough).
I spent my whole six years in an infantry unit, became a E5 and didn't wish to re-enlist.

It's the same now. If you really want to pick up past E5 you'd almost have to take one of them. I fell out of selection for presidential guard there because of a stupid a** questionaire they had to ask. Kind of glad now though. Otherwise I'd have to look at that sack in office more often than I'd like to in person, LOL.

 

[singlesix]

I never once said this is representative of all women. I gave you my experiences and my opinion. you filled in the rest

I still believe women should not be in a combat unit.

From your post.

 

[1775usmarine]

From your post.

Still an opinion. Nice try.