Government response to Boston Marathon bombs; warrantless searches & soldiers

[churchmouse]

Then what does "whatever else they see fit" mean?

Since when does refusing consent for a search provide sufficient probable cause to obtain a warrant for a search? Or am I misunderstanding, and you're claiming they'll just go lie to the judge?

You mention you've seen this happen. Care to mention any specific cases so we can all go research it and see what *actually* happened?

In plain sight.
This happened to a friend down the street. Saw it and realized they have all the cards in the deck.

*Actually*......Nothing found but they came back and did gain entrance.
Push them and they will push back. Nuff said.

So we can all go research.

 

[TheReaper]

Didn't read the whole thread, did it actually take all the way to post #261 to bring up the Nazis? I would've thought it would happen WAY before that.

I know, right! You always have to have someone on INGO's comparing the police with Nazi's! And you would think that Rambone would have brought it up sooner himself, he just must have been too busy cheering for the terrorist.

 

[jbombelli]

In plain sight.
This happened to a friend down the street. Saw it and realized they have all the cards in the deck.

*Actually*......Nothing found but they came back and did gain entrance.
Push them and they will push back. Nuff said.

So we can all go research.

If there are actual, articulable "exigent circumstances" they don't need to leave and come back with a warrant; they can and will just bum rush their way in. If they have to leave to get a warrant they will have to have PC for the search. Denying their request to search does not provide PC for a search. And it doesn't matter what might be "in plain sight" once they make entry - they still have to have the warrant. So where are they going to get their PC? "We think the guy we're looking for might be within 20 square blocks so we have to search THIS GUY'S house" when they don't have any real suspicion that he's in that particular house doesn't quite add up to PC for a warrant in my opinion.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Denny, I respect your views and I know the point you are trying to convey. But we aren't discussing rights here, we are discussing subsidized materials and practices. It comes with the territory of working for the people. They are the "boss."

My boss requires that I wear a collared shirt to work. That's his preference for people that [STRIKE]serve him[/STRIKE] are employed by him. That's the image he wants his operation to be known by. The public has the right to make the same [STRIKE]decisions[/STRIKE] suggestions regarding their[STRIKE] servants[/STRIKE]government employees.... for any reason. It might be because of fear, cost, personal preference, or something else.

FTFY above

Two of the above highlight items, proves to me that you are completely out of touch with your realm.

First of all, you are not a servant, if you think that way, then you need a basic thought process realignment.

Secondly, people who are employed by our local, state and federal government are no more a servant than you are to your employer.
If you can't fathom that, reread the above paragraph.
This is 2013, not 1650

When you are placed in King Obama cabinet and placed charge of purchasing clothing for our LEO's such, so be it, but you're not, heck the way your thought process is, sometimes I bet there's been more than one time that you think all LEO's should be dressed with pink tu-too's and frilly lace.

 

[in625shooter]

What some of the LE critics here are not realizing (some don't care) is this specific case was an exceptional incident to undertake. It really showed what good can happpen when the public and police work together to catch the evil from the world. How it is suppose to work

Below is an example of that it was about more than what some are complaining about here.

One of the less publicized impressions from yesterday's stand-off. A family with young children in Watertown was out of milk during the lock down ...

 

[Bunnykid68]

What some of the LE critics here are not realizing (some don't care) is this specific case was an exceptional incident to undertake. It really showed what good can happpen when the public and police work together to catch the evil from the world. How it is suppose to work

Below is an example of that it was about more than what some are complaining about here.

One of the less publicized impressions from yesterday's stand-off. A family with young children in Watertown was out of milk during the lock down ...

Are you sure he didn't just steal their milk for his cereal?

 

[churchmouse]

If there are actual, articulable "exigent circumstances" they don't need to leave and come back with a warrant; they can and will just bum rush their way in. If they have to leave to get a warrant they will have to have PC for the search. Denying their request to search does not provide PC for a search. And it doesn't matter what might be "in plain sight" once they make entry - they still have to have the warrant. So where are they going to get their PC? "We think the guy we're looking for might be within 20 square blocks so we have to search THIS GUY'S house" when they don't have any real suspicion that he's in that particular house doesn't quite add up to PC for a warrant in my opinion.

Well, when they returned with a warrant it must have been. We all have an opinion and I am just stating what I saw. No more or less than that. I am no lawyer and only have personal experiences to draw from.
I am not trying to start a fight but you seem to know so there it is.
Leo showed when there was a noise complaint. Yes there was noise. Yes we had stopped. Leo walked into friends garage, was asked to step outside the garage and said he was in and wanted to look around. Friend stepped in front of him again asking him to step outside and talk there LEO saw 2 handguns on the bench. Got excited. They were ours and we stated as much. Friend again told LEO to leave his garage and talk outside. LEO became very agitated and again referred to the handguns. It escalated from there into a full blown argument. LEO eventually left but was back shortly with help. I was at home by then (just down the street) and was wittiness to all the stupidity of the event. I walked back down and was patted down for weapons and none were found (Duh) but did have LTCH. The search turned up nothing. LEO left and all was once again calm.
It was ridiculous from the start. All that had to be said was keep it down. We had already put away the toys.
I guess they were wrong huh..........

No one is right all the time. Had we not been running his race car for an extended period LEO would not have came. Neighbors kid was sick and we were not aware.All was quite when he arrived.

 

[in625shooter]

Are you sure he didn't just steal their milk for his cereal?

Trying to keep it stired up I see. If he was stealing it like you wish wouldn't he have been running away?

 

[churchmouse]

Trying to keep it stired up I see. If he was stealing it like you wish wouldn't he have been running away?

You can't keep the bunny down.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Trying to keep it stired up I see. If he was stealing it like you wish wouldn't he have been running away?

You can certainly be hard on a person! Not even going to let our resident rabbit enjoy his sense of humor?

 

[churchmouse]

11:48 PM. I am sure the bunny is more than a few beers down the tube....

 

[Bunnykid68]

Trying to keep it stired up I see. If he was stealing it like you wish wouldn't he have been running away?

Unless he was mocking them

 

[in625shooter]

You can't keep the bunny down.

You can certainly be hard on a person! Not even going to let our resident rabbit enjoy his sense of humor?

It's all good. I don't mind the friendly ribbing it's the off the wall stirring of nonsnse that chaps me.

 

[churchmouse]

It's all good. I don't mind the friendly ribbing it's the off the wall stirring of nonsnse that chaps me.

We are all easily chapped these days. Way to much nonsense and stupidity. I wish for one solid week with no insane shooting spree's and senseless acts of violence. Anxiety's are running at an all time high.

 

[rambone]

FTFY above

Two of the above highlight items, proves to me that you are completely out of touch with your realm.

First of all, you are not a servant, if you think that way, then you need a basic thought process realignment.

Secondly, people who are employed by our local, state and federal government are no more a servant than you are to your employer.
If you can't fathom that, reread the above paragraph.
This is 2013, not 1650

Please un-fix what I wrote and think harder about it. I stand by every word. "Public servant" is not a pejorative. Every government employee is supposed to be a public servant. In theory, they serve the public's interest, are overseen by the public, paid by the public, and answerable to the public. All of them, from the local dog-catcher to the president. If any public servant doesn't embrace his role as a public servant, he doesn't deserve to be a public servant anymore.

 

[churchmouse]

Please un-fix what I wrote and think harder about it. I stand by every word. "Public servant" is not a pejorative. Every government employee is supposed to be a public servant. In theory, they serve the public's interest, are overseen by the public, paid by the public, and answerable to the public. All of them, from the local dog-catcher to the president. If any public servant doesn't embrace his role as a public servant, he doesn't deserve to be a public servant anymore.

This in theory is true....in practice, well, not so much.
I agree with your statement as it is supposed to be the way it works. In reality, again, not so much. Just stating things as I see them.

 

[IndyDave1776]

FTFY above

Two of the above highlight items, proves to me that you are completely out of touch with your realm.

First of all, you are not a servant, if you think that way, then you need a basic thought process realignment.

Secondly, people who are employed by our local, state and federal government are no more a servant than you are to your employer.
If you can't fathom that, reread the above paragraph.
This is 2013, not 1650

When you are placed in King Obama cabinet and placed charge of purchasing clothing for our LEO's such, so be it, but you're not, heck the way your thought process is, sometimes I bet there's been more than one time that you think all LEO's should be dressed with pink tu-too's and frilly lace.

Please un-fix what I wrote and think harder about it. I stand by every word. "Public servant" is not a pejorative. Every government employee is supposed to be a public servant. In theory, they serve the public's interest, are overseen by the public, paid by the public, and answerable to the public. All of them, from the local dog-catcher to the president. If any public servant doesn't embrace his role as a public servant, he doesn't deserve to be a public servant anymore.

Rambone is absolutely right. The argument to the contrary hinges on the same falsehood used to support the notion that the General Welfare Clause authorizes the payment of public money to individuals for their subsistence. Just as the General Welfare is just that, circumstances favorable for the well-being of the citizens as opposed to the specific welfare of any particular individual, the role of a public servant is that of serving the general public within the confines of that person's job description, not serving any particular individual. The pivotal problem with the rise of an authoritarian state comes in form of public servants morphing into public masters--a trend I believe we are seeing in the present time.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Are you sure he didn't just steal their milk for his cereal?

Nah, we got a new tactic.... milk boarding

 

[IndyDave1776]

Nah, we got a new tactic.... milk boarding

Fair guess that this is especially effective when used on vegans?

 

[Lex Concord]

point 1 - No, it did not justify ending Saddam Hussein's exestencial threat to the United States, that was unique and self sustaining.

How true. Now, could you refresh my memory (I'm getting old), was it Sadaam's ICBM arsenal or the massive Iraqi navy that was perceived as the most imminent threat to our existence at the time