Got ticketed for fishing w/o a license.... except I wasn't fishing...

[Zoub]

Maybe if your going to preach at me about knowing the law, you should make sure everything your going to say is correct.




As I have no intention of ever fishing the Ohio I simply asked for the education on the code which you still failed to cite so you are spouting hearsay just as much as I am.

You are blending fishing with hunting. My comment on boundry waters is only about fishing which is the only thing you mentioned. Shooting on, over or around water is only about that. Since I have hunted and fished in Indiana, KY and on the Ohio, Family and friends have land on the Ohio, yeah I know the laws but clearly you don't because you keep having to check them.

Here is a clue for you, read up on fishing up creeks and rivers on the KY side. No need to cite it, it is all right there. There are creeks and rivers in Indiana, there is the Ohio river and then there are creeks and rivers in Kentucky. You must know the differences to stay legal.

It is a BTDT thing and you clearly have none on any of it. Which is why you and others do not understand why CB is going to lose on this unless the Judge has a hard on for the CO.

 

[Zoub]

I have and the officer told me to have a nice night.

And others have gone to jail so you think it was the law that saved you or the officer giving you a break?

 

[snowman46919]

Just like knowing why, when and how you can legally shoot a squirrel from a canoe with a rifle but you can't shoot a fish with an AR or shoot across an open body of water at a deer. Your lack of knowledge of the laws made you miss my humor but makes my point exactly.

Yup I sure was the one mixing the two your absolutely correct. Your lack of knowledge makes my point.

You are blending fishing with hunting. My comment on boundry waters is only about fishing which is the only thing you mentioned. Shooting on, over or around water is only about that. Since I have hunted and fished in Indiana, KY and on the Ohio, Family and friends have land on the Ohio, yeah I know the laws but clearly you don't because you keep having to check them.

Here is a clue for you, read up on fishing up creeks and rivers on the KY side. No need to cite it, it is all right there. There are creeks and rivers in Indiana, there is the Ohio river and then there are creeks and rivers in Kentucky. You must know the differences to stay legal.

It is a BTDT thing and you clearly have none on any of it. Which is why you and others do not understand why CB is going to lose on this unless the Judge has a hard on for the CO.

Care to explain your fancy acronym? Once again I HAVE NO INTENTIONS of ever fishing the Ohio it was an offhand comment and obviously asking for you to cite the information which you so quickly offered up as hearsay is asking entirely too much. I will never make the mistake of asking for a crumb of knowledge of your perfectly legal fishing record of 40 years.

 

[finity]

Zoub,

You never answered my question:

Is it "poaching" (illegal hunting) for a person to carry a rifle on private property out of season or does it take that person ACTUALLY attempting to shoot the animal that constitutes hunting?

Similarly, is it poaching for a person to hold a fishing rod without the line in the water or is it ACTUALLY attempting to catch the fish that constitutes fishing?

Carrying a rifle isn't hunting. Holding a rod in your hands isn't fishing. UNTIL you ACTUALLY attempt to take the animal/fish...even if you aren't successful.

 

[samot]

if your not guilty ... your not guilty

 

[CountryBoy19]

Because I was unable to find any IC that defined "fishing" I asked the DNR.

The response I received back was essentially, "fishing" is synonymous with the IC definintion of "take"

[FONT=Consolas, monospace][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

IC 14-8-2-278

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"Take"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Sec. 278. "Take" has the following meaning:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (1) For purposes of IC 14-22, except as provided in subdivision (2):[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (A) to kill, shoot, spear, gig, catch, trap, harm, harass, or pursue a wild animal; or[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (B) to attempt to engage in such conduct.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] (2) For purposes of IC 14-22-34, the meaning set forth in IC 14-22-34-5.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.1.[/FONT]

[/FONT]This would mean that holding a fishing pole near waters of the state would be equivalent to holding a firearm on state property. The mere presence of a firearm does not make you guilty of pursuing or taking game, although it may be difficult to determine that by the CO's observation.

Because there was no pursuit nor attempt to pursue game, I don't see how I could be guilty as charged.

I did call the prosecutor's office earlier this week, I have yet to hear back from them. I absolutely hate it when prosecutor's offices don't return phone calls.

 

[Fargo]

Because I was unable to find any IC that defined "fishing" I asked the DNR office.

The response I received back was essentially, "fishing" is synonymous with the IC definintion of "take"

[FONT=Consolas, monospace]
[/FONT]This would mean that holding a fishing pole near waters of the state would be equivalent to holding a firearm on state property. The mere presence of a firearm does not make you guilty of pursuing or taking game, although it may be difficult to determine that by the CO's observation.

Because there was no pursuit nor attempt to pursue game, I don't see how I could be guilty as charged.

I did call the prosecutor's office earlier this week, I have yet to hear back from them. I absolutely hate it when prosecutor's offices don't return phone calls.

Try email if they post it on the county website. It is usually a more efficient way.

Joe

 

[samot]

so i guess its illegal to walk the woods during deer season while possessing a rifle too

 

[IndySSD]

so i guess its illegal to walk the woods during deer season while possessing a rifle too

depends on the rifle....

I've gone squirrel hunting with a .22 plenty of times without deer tags...

However if you're carrying a .458 SOCOM AR during deer season with no deer tags on state property... yeah... you're probably going to get tagged.

 

[snowman46919]

depends on the rifle....

I've gone squirrel hunting with a .22 plenty of times without deer tags...

However if you're carrying a .458 SOCOM AR during deer season with no deer tags on state property... yeah... you're probably going to get tagged.

I don't think caliber alone would show intent, now if he was covered in multi cam had a set of rattlers hooked to is pants or had other paraphernalia to represent that he was hunting okay. If 458 is good for deer its good for self protection as well

 

[finity]

depends on the rifle....

I've gone squirrel hunting with a .22 plenty of times without deer tags...

However if you're carrying a .458 SOCOM AR during deer season with no deer tags on state property... yeah... you're probably going to get tagged.

Why?

There's nothing in the law that says you can't use a .458SOCOM to hunt squirrels. Or even a .50BMG.

That's why I used private property in my examples above since it is illegal to carry a firearm on state property unless you are legally hunting or you have a handgun with an unlimited LTCH.

I doubt that you would get charged with poaching for carrying a gun outside of hunting season unless someone saw you attempt to "take" the animal or there was some other evidence that you were hunting (like, oh, I don't know...a dead deer at your feet).

You would likely get a ticket for illegally carrying a gun on state land but not necessarily for illegal "hunting".

But that does bring up another question:

Would it be considered illegal hunting if you were simply carrying a "deer legal" handgun during deer season without a deer license as long as you had a LTCH? I know the answer would be "no".

Simply carrying a gun used for hunting deer is not evidence of deer hunting. Carrying a fishing pole is not evidence of fishing.

 

[iChokePeople]

^^ ...because the guy carrying it has an LTCH and can assert that he's carrying it for personal protection. Using the 'reasonable man' standard, what else does one do with a fishing pole, standing next to a body of water? I would find it hard to accept something like "personal protection, your honor...", or "just seeing how it would look."

If the OP is willing to risk a lot more money and time for the cause, I say go for it. It's a great argument, and I'd love to see it hashed out in the court system... but I'd still take side bets that he's going to lose.

 

[trophyhunter]

This thread reminds me of why I don't take people for "boat rides" as I get asked frequently by friends, neighbors etc. when they see me hooking up to one of my boats to go fishing.

The answer is always the same, -"I'd love to have you along, we just need to stop and get you a fishing license before we launch." I have no reasonable expectation for me or my "passenger(s)" to not get put on the hot seat if checked and found to not be in possession of a valid fishing license, even if that person is just sitting there empty handed in a boat that is obviously engaged in the pursuit of fish in state waters.

My boats have fishing electronics, multiple tackle boxes full of lures, nets, many rods and reels for various applications etc. In my minds eye that constitutes a preponderance of evidence to any CO that desires to take issue over a passenger not in possession of a valid license.

I would absolutely expect to get cited if I was standing near the waters edge holding a pole and not being licensed. It's always more cost effective to not take chances and circumvent the law, certainly not worth the $17.00 dollars for a fishing license. As far as the Op's citation is concerned, I don't see any legitimate defense under the circumstances.

 

[samot]

depends on the rifle....

I've gone squirrel hunting with a .22 plenty of times without deer tags...

However if you're carrying a .458 SOCOM AR during deer season with no deer tags on state property... yeah... you're probably going to get tagged.

I walk the woods all the time during deer season with some kind of rifle !
Your not poaching till a deer is on the ground. AFAIK .... walking with a rifle is not illegal
& IF a CO sited me for it i would fight it till i ran out of money !!!
sorry if off topic.... but similar in case

 

[E5RANGER375]

all the animals belong to the king. pay your tax peasants and then you shall be allowed to take a small amount in the name of the king.

 

[trophyhunter]

all the animals belong to the king. pay your tax peasants and then you shall be allowed to take a small amount in the name of the king.

This, or risk the wrath of an IDNR JBT! Law enforcement officers can and will enforce the law, and every conceivable gray area and nook and cranny of the law as it pertains to what they *think* they can get the courts backing on, or know they can based on case experience. Pay a smaller tax now to cover your backside, or a much bigger one later.

At least we get something back for the various license fee's we pay to state fish and game agencies. Indiana has pretty adequate public access sites with improved boat ramps etc. Some of the best fishing around is right in my own backyard thanks to stocking and management programs. Michigan really throws some dollars at their access sites, much nicer generally speaking and likewise does a great job with management and stocking programs.

 

[Zoub]

Would it be considered illegal hunting if you were simply carrying a "deer legal" handgun during deer season without a deer license as long as you had a LTCH? I know the answer would be "no".

Simply carrying a gun used for hunting deer is not evidence of deer hunting. Carrying a fishing pole is not evidence of fishing.

In some areas in some States, yes that can get you busted but they always spell it out, it is your job to know. Put a loaded shotgun on a tailgate in WI you may get busted, not so in Indiana

Conisder this, you have a shotgun on you, it is Turkey or Dove season and the field you are about to hunt is considered "baited" even though the property is yours. Yes you just broke the law and without ever firing a shot. They will bust you before you even shoot. The way the ATF use to bust straw buyers before they sold the guns to criminals.

Even better, poachers have illegally baited your land and in a great spot you fully intend to hunt on opening day. You walk out there, within a given distance of the baited area, you are busted.

If you are lucky enough to have crossed paths with the DNR folks before opening day, who are watching your land and you find out about the baiting and tell them it was not you...........they will tell you stay off it and away from the baited area or you get busted too. They will tell you to hunt elsewhere on your own property, assuming it is big enough to do that.

A Govt employee is telling you what you can and can not do on your private property on season opener. Ignore them and they will come on to your property and bust you. It will make you angry as hell to hear that but it is the law and now you have been warned.

They often go on private property without telling you, looking for signs of illegal hunting activity. When is the last time a Cop strolled through your backyard just looking for illegal activity?

Where I dove hunt now, on private property, even on that land we can not set up within 100 yards of a pond that is on a neighbors land because the DNR considers it baited. He feeds his cattle near that pond. Water AND food in an open field = Dove magnet. They advised us ahead of time, we ignore them and we will get tagged. No we won't go shoot clays or do anything with a shotgun inside that 100 yard radius once Dove season opens.

None of this is like traffic laws or crap you deal with in your neighborhood or day to day life. Call three friends in Georgia or Texas, see how many have a ticket from Dove season or know people who do.

I came back to this to ask.............HOW DID THE OP FAIR WITH THE JUDGE? IS HE IN COUNTY LOCKUP WITH NO INTERNT ACCESS? Surely he got one phone call so he can call a fellow INGO member who can then post an update?

 

[CountryBoy19]

I came back to this to ask.............HOW DID THE OP FAIR WITH THE JUDGE? IS HE IN COUNTY LOCKUP WITH NO INTERNT ACCESS? Surely he got one phone call so he can call a fellow INGO member who can then post an update?

Prosecutor's office was uncooperative, they couldn't even get answers to simple questions straight. One person told me one thing, another told me something else.

Ultimately I was told to contact the CO that wrote the ticket, fully explain the situation and see if he was willing to work out some sort of peaceful resolution.

I made several attempts to call the ICO North region headquarters and the ICO district that the officer was in. My calls were repeatedly ignored and voicemails were not returned. The ICO director is now involved in the situation and hopefully we can come to a resolution. Unfortunatley, in the meantime, to stay out of jail, I marked nolo contendere on the ticket and paid the fine. I will likely never get that back, but it wasn't worth my time and gas to take a day off work, drive 3 hours there and 3 hours back for a "conference" or "hearing" or whatever the prosecutor's office said I would have to do first and then do the same thing again for the court case.

 

[Sgood]

I once had a co want to see my ammo in my gun....asked me for my liscense, I handed him my small game liscense....he said no, I need to see your deer liscense......I was a smartass in my younger days.....I told hime I was rabbit hunting and asked why he wanted a deer liscense....he said well you have deer slugs in your gun.......I told him no, I have foster slugs in my gun and as far as I know there was no restriction on ammo used for rabbits...

He was pissed but nothing he could do.

 

[buford t justice]

My friend took his daughter and her boyfriend along one night to show them how they hunt
Racoon. Neither the daughter or the boyfriend touched anything,guns ,ammo,dogs,racoon
nothing at all.
Coming out of the the woods they encountered the dnr officer and they both got tickets for coon hunting without a license.
My friend tried to fight it but in the end he paid for both of their fines.