Go Woke, Go Broke???

[oze]

What do you think I owe you?
Is coming into my business and demanding a 4% discount on everything a reasonable expectation?
I’ve kept my prices pretty consistent over this bidenomics ********.
Every supplier I have has increased everything across the board. (Hint this is industry wide, I can’t “tilt at windmills” and go somewhere else.
And whatever fees they are paying IT is THEIR decision if they want to use that method.

You don't owe me anything; I don't know where you got the impression that I thought you did. Set your prices however you have to. But if you or anyone seeks to charge me a higher fee for using a card than they themselves pay, what I don't owe them is my patronage.

 

[Ingomike]

Both are owned by InBev. Bud Light is a brand, not a company. People who were drinking Bud Light are now drinking other brands. Many of which are just drinking other brands owned by the same company.

Both are not owned by InBev but the justice department would not let AB have too many brands in a buyout so several were sold to constellation, a competitor.

Some constellation brands are owned by AB in other countries just to make it more confusing.

The sheeple need to wake up and realize the difference between ownership and their brands. The plethora of choices at the store is an illusion…

 

[printcraft]

You don't owe me anything; I don't know where you got the impression that I thought you did. Set your prices however you have to. But if you or anyone seeks to charge me a higher fee for using a card than they themselves pay, what I don't owe them is my patronage.

That’s the point, this is break even, less that break even, there isn’t “profit”.
Use a check.

100% of my customers have said:
A; I don’t care, use the card
B; Here’s a check
C; Cash is king

Not a single one has had a problem with the policy.

 

[Ingomike]

You don't owe me anything; I don't know where you got the impression that I thought you did. Set your prices however you have to. But if you or anyone seeks to charge me a higher fee for using a card than they themselves pay, what I don't owe them is my patronage.

Why do you think you know what they pay? From small to large there is a huge variance in what is charged the businesses by various processors.

This whole line of thinking is odd to me. Generally speaking my ONLY concern is what is my final price and am I happy with it. It is just a cost vs. value equation to me…

 

[oze]

That’s the point, this is break even, less that break even, there isn’t “profit”.
Use a check.

100% of my customers have said:
A; I don’t care, use the card
B; Here’s a check
C; Cash is king

Not a single one has had a problem with the policy.

My last post on this. A vendor is charged a fee by the bank when a customer uses their credit card, say 2.5%. The vendor then adds 4% to my bill. Poof. Instant additional 1.5% profit and lost customer.

 

[Ingomike]

My last post on this. A vendor is charged a fee by the bank when a customer uses their credit card, say 2.5%. The vendor then adds 4% to my bill. Poof. Instant additional 1.5% profit and lost customer.

I think you are over simplifying this. There are often other fees the merchant must pay besides the percentage.

“For merchants, it can be almost impossible to run a business without taking credit cards. However, the fees from these transactions can eat into profits, making it hard for some merchants with a small spread to stay afloat. The average credit card processing fee ranges between 1.5% and 3.5%. Just where do all these fees come from, and what can a merchant do to minimize them?”

What Are Credit Card Processing Fees?​

Credit card processing fees are the fees that a business must pay every time it accepts a credit card payment. There are multiple types of fees associated with each transaction, and fees can vary depending on the type of credit card accepted.

Interchange Fees​

The interchange fee is a payment made directly to the card issuer for the swiped transaction. Fees may vary based on the type of card being used, the amount of the transaction and the industry the business is in. For example, credit card companies may charge higher interchange fees for online purchases since fraud is a bigger problem with these types of transactions.

Payment Processor Fees​

The merchant services processor, also called a payment processor, can also charge a fee to facilitate the transaction. Merchant services fees include monthly fees, per-transaction fees, equipment lease fees and statement fees. This is how a processor makes its money since it gets none of the interchange fees.

Assessment Fees​

Assessment fees are fees paid directly to the credit card network so that the merchant can use certain credit cards. This fee is based on monthly sales, not per transaction. When combined with the interchange fee, merchants refer to the total as a swipe fee.

Credit Card Processing Fees (2024 Guide)

For merchants, it can be almost impossible to run a business without taking credit cards. However, the fees from these transactions can eat into profits, making it hard for some merchants with a small spread to stay afloat. The average credit card processing fee ranges between 1.5% and 3.5%. Just wh

www.forbes.com

 

[KLB]

My last post on this. A vendor is charged a fee by the bank when a customer uses their credit card, say 2.5%. The vendor then adds 4% to my bill. Poof. Instant additional 1.5% profit and lost customer.

You'd prefer they just raised prices for all transactions?

 

[printcraft]

My last post on this. A vendor is charged a fee by the bank when a customer uses their credit card, say 2.5%. The vendor then adds 4% to my bill. Poof. Instant additional 1.5% profit and lost customer.

Cool.
America Express is over 4%, it's averaging. The micro managing is difficult.
There are at least 2 additional payment methods offered along with the addition to direct deposit, money order.
Nobody is forced to pay fees.
Would you be happier if I hid the increases and raised my rates for all products 5% no matter what payment method you used?
It's like people that are excited they get a tax refund, I guess if they don't see it they are blissfully ignorant.

Accepting a check REALLY carries additional risk of bad checks and additional clerical management of waiting for it to clear.
Come to think of it, I should charge a high fee for check processing, I think you've convinced me.

NOTE: I know this seems counterintuitive in business, but I don't want EVERY customer.
Some are a pain in the ass to put it mildly, just the way it is in retail. If you have every spent any time as a business owner you would know this.
I have fired MANY over the years for being more trouble than they are worth, they can be the other shops problem.

 

[printcraft]

"I can't be inconvenienced to write a check!!!"

Entitlement IS a dirty word.

NOTE: this will not be my last post on the topic.
I live with a professional arguer and have become very proficient in the ancient arts.

 

[manifest destiny]

My last post on this. A vendor is charged a fee by the bank when a customer uses their credit card, say 2.5%. The vendor then adds 4% to my bill. Poof. Instant additional 1.5% profit and lost custome

I accepted CC's for a period. At that time the contract forbid me from offering cash discounts and it forbid me from setting a minimum purchase amount to use a CC. Further, my rate (the % of the sale that I pay to the processor) was set according to my "average sale". It didn't matter to them if I turned $10k in CC sales or $100k in CC sales. If my average sale was low, their rate was high. If I had a higher average sale, my rate would be lower. Further, further, they charged me additional fees if my acceptance of CC's was mobile vs. brick and morter. Then they would add a fee for the equipment needed to process CC's. Sure, I could use a cheaper knuckle-buster but the fee would be more per transaction than if I had a machine connected to a phone line. Now, a lot has changed in commerce and my example is from about 15yrs ago. I stopped accepting CC upon completion of my contract. I haven't personally used a CC in 15ish years. When I shop, if the merchant offers a discount for check or cash - hot damn! I'm in. I still buy wholesale and check/cash payment receives a discount on my purchase. CC's are uber convenient and offer some "rewards" (giving back a small cut of the $'s taken from the merchant at the point of sale). But ultimately they cost everyone involved in a transaction.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

"I can't be inconvenienced to write a check!!!"

I don't like to be inconvenienced to be the one in line behind the one that's writing a check.

 

[printcraft]

I don't like to be inconvenienced to be the one in line behind the one that's writing a check.

Yeah, I have them waiting outside the door down the block...

Upside is... It's nice and cool in here and I have candy on the front counter...
NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE FOR THE CANDY!!!!!!!
(paid for by the CC fees)

 

[manifest destiny]

I don't like to be inconvenienced to be the one in line behind the one that's writing a check.

Old people, I swear.... Get off my register!!

On topic, and I don't want to speak for @oze, but I can understand his complaint with up-charging CC users. Both my biz professor at IUPUI and the sales rep that set me up for CC acceptance made the same claim, paraphrasing: The costs for CC usage is/should be built into the merchant's pricing. Such that if Visa skims 4%, the merchant's prices should already reflect that cost. All costs are passed to the consumer, they said. So if true, and it probably is for the big box corps, then adding additional fees to use CC seems predatory. In my example, CC users should pay the listed price (assuming skim fee in built-in) and cash customers might get a discount. In my particular instance, I hadn't previously built in such costs. I was sold more on the CC's inabling better cash flow (true), increased sales (maybe true). But by the time the processing fees, equiptment fees and the rest, it simply wasn't worth it for my situation.

tl:dr A biz accepting CC's might do better to offer discount for cash/check vs. up-charging CC users.

 

[printcraft]

tl:dr A biz accepting CC's might do better to offer discount for cash/check vs. up-charging CC users.

Peter and Paul situation here.
Would require raising prices across the board, it's just "hiding" the associated fees.

If we are all wishing here, how about the credit card companies just stop charging fees?
I mean, they aren't doing anything to earn it or helping to make the products...

 

[manifest destiny]

Peter and Paul situation here.
Would require raising prices across the board, it's just "hiding" the associated fees.

True, but it sounds better to say "would you like a discount" vs. "I hate the way you pay, so pay more". Well, it sounds better to me because I use cash or write checks. I don't really see an advantage to CC, not as a buyer and not as a seller. But those hooked on "rewards" love them some CC's. Such is todays digital world.

 

[printcraft]

True, but it sounds better to say "would you like a discount" vs. "I hate the way you pay, so pay more". Well, it sounds better to me because I use cash or write checks. I don't really see an advantage to CC, not as a buyer and not as a seller. But those hooked on "rewards" love them some CC's. Such is todays digital world.

Yes, that's like the gas station "discount for cash" it really gets people excited. I understand the gymnastics.

 

[Ingomike]

If we are all wishing here, how about the credit card companies just stop charging fees?
I mean, they aren't doing anything to earn it or helping to make the products...

But, But, they help fund the one world government…

 

[manifest destiny]

If we are all wishing here, how about the credit card companies just stop charging fees?

Maybe the companies should charge the user of the card.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Maybe the companies should charge the user of the card.

You mean in addition to the 20 or so percent that they already charge (if not paid off every month that is)? What about debit cards? Do they incur the same costs for the retailer that credit cards do?

 

[manifest destiny]

You mean in addition to the 20 or so percent that they already charge (if not paid off every month that is)?

Yes.

What about debit cards? Do they incur the same costs for the retailer that credit cards do?

When I accepted CC's they did. In fairness, I don't think they should. I view using debit cards to be the equivalent of writing a check or paying with cash. But somebody has to transmit data, add and subtract zeros. And that somebody wants a cut.