Getting pulled over in a school zone

[Kirk Freeman]

Don't speed in school zones and it probably will not be an issue.

The term is "allegedly speed". It wouldn't kill you to use it now and then.

you are saying that I should go back and file on every person I have ever stopped on school property with a firearm who was in legal possession?

You could (well, the prosecutor could), but I wouldn't want that, of course not. More laws, less justice and all that.

I am just pointing out the statute and it does not have the function requirement that you seem to deem necessary. If police are going to go using common use on me, then have at it as well it should be. Or, better yet, amend the statute so that LTCH holders are exempt from the statute.

I am just pointing out the language of the statute for INGO so we don't lose ourselves in the forest.

Did you not have the firearm on school property at one time while you drove by?

Sure I did, in fact I drove by several schools on my way to my office, but I just drove by and never entered the property. The Indiana statute requires on the property not within a certain distance (perhaps you are thinking of the federal statute, but we are covered there via the LTCH).

 

[mk2ja]

What you refer to has nothing to do with the being pulled over in a atraffic stop.

Uhmmm...I believe it pretty much spells out what you are required to do in case you are stopped. Pull over immediately. I know that is complicated for some to understand.

No, the reason it doesn't apply to the situation of being pulled over is that it explicitly says the section of the Code is about "yield of right-of-way". This is distinct from being stopped.

Here is a definition (source) that may help explain why this is distinct:

Vehicles often come into conflict with other vehicles and pedestrians because their intended courses of travel intersect, and thus interfere with each other's routes. The general principle that establishes who has the right to go first is called "right of way", or "priority". It establishes who has the right to use the conflicting part of the road and who has to wait until the other does so.

The section you quoted is the standardization for people who use roads in Indiana so they know that whenever they see an emergency vehicle, they are to give priority to, or yield right-of-way to, the emergency vehicle and explains the correct way to do so.

Thus, the code does not apply to one who has been stopped by a law enforcement officer.


This, however, DOES "[spell] out what you are required to do in case you are stopped."

Routine Traffic Stops By Law Enforcement
A routine traffic stop can be stressful. However, to law enforcement, it can be dangerous. Law enforcement officers do not know if an individual in a routine stop for a violation is a criminal with intent to harm the officer. Follow these simple rules if you are signaled to pull over by law enforcement:

• Signal your intentions to pull safely to the shoulder of the road.
• Remain in your vehicle and roll down your window.
• Wait for the officer to approach.
• Turn on the dome light if you are stopped at night.
• Keep your hands on the wheel and instruct your passengers to keep their hands in view.
• Do not dig in the glove compartment or under the seat.
• Keep your vehicle’s registration and insurance information, and your driver’s license, easily accessible.

Source: Indiana Driver's Manual, Chapter 6 (view the whole manual here)


To address the original question, I note that it does not say that you are required to pull over immediately. (In fact, it doesn't actually even say to pull over, but I think that's pretty safely implied.) Based on the rules in the Indiana Driver's Manual, I would signal my intent to pull safely to the shoulder, and then I would pull safely to the shoulder in such a location as to be safe for myself and the LEO both physically and legally (as in, I would be safe from additional charges of possessing a gun on school grounds).

 

[libertybear]

Signal your intentions to pull safely to the shoulder of the road.

I have to say this is the first thing it tells you to do and it says nothing about entering any property it says "shoulder of the road" not nearest other road or nearest school, church , bank whatever it says "shoulder of the road".

I have pulled onto a very close parking lot entrance and was doing so at slow speeds while signal and it didn't go well. It was very stressful it made him nervous and I wont be doing that again. I don't get pulled over a lot but when I do I pull over on the road I am currently driving on period. When a LEO lights you up it's not optional or at your leisure they want you to pull over.

 

[sporter]

Pulling over in an area that is safer for the officer to do his job has helped me get out of several tickets.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I had an officer get quite mad at me because I didn't pull over in a construction zone on 65 a few years ago, I thought finding a safe place was the right thing to do.

 

[public servant]

The term is "allegedly speed". It wouldn't kill you to use it now and then.

You know you were guilty damnit!!

That's why I put the footnote at the bottom of that post.

 

[miguel]

Just please don't pull over at the stop sign at a four-way stop like some nimrod did at 161st and Oak this past week...geesh, the guy endangered the officer and confounded the whole intersection!!!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You know you were guilty damnit!!

No, I don't. I don't have Jedi Powers like IMPD cops who can use the power of their minds to bend radar around semi trucks or through them.

So, Mr. Obvious, what you're saying is that I got a bad ticket. Gee, I feel like a real schmo.

 

[JoshuaW]

I had an officer get quite mad at me because I didn't pull over in a construction zone on 65 a few years ago, I thought finding a safe place was the right thing to do.

That seems obvious to me, he wanted to ticket you in the construction zone. I had a cop get all pissy with me one time because I turned onto a side street rather than continue where the speed limit dropped. He still tried to ticket me at the lower speed limit, despite the fact I never crossed into that zone. That was also when I learned fighting a ticket in court is useless. He wrote that I was in the other zone, so apparently his word is better than mine. Never fighting a ticket again.

 

[target64]

I have to strongly disagree. I consider a police car to be an emergency vehicle and if you follow the law that was posted you will not end up on school property. So I say it's good advice to the OP to follow said law.

If I see a police car, fire truck, ambulance etc. in my mirror I pull over just like the law says and 9 times out of 10 they go around me. If your getting pulled over they will pull over right behind you.

Let me clarify a couple of points:
1) Yes I agree that one should pull over at the earliest possible moment in a trafic stop.
2) I am well aware of emergency vehicles, I have drove them many for years in the past.

Uhmmm...I believe it pretty much spells out what you are required to do in case you are stopped. Pull over immediately. I know that is complicated for some to understand.

1) The "Yield the Right of way" laws, however similar are not the ones that needed to be quoted concerning the OP's question.
2) It also could be noted that reading comprehension for "SOME" is very difficult.

 

[sj kahr k40]

That seems obvious to me, he wanted to ticket you in the construction zone. I had a cop get all pissy with me one time because I turned onto a side street rather than continue where the speed limit dropped. He still tried to ticket me at the lower speed limit, despite the fact I never crossed into that zone. That was also when I learned fighting a ticket in court is useless. He wrote that I was in the other zone, so apparently his word is better than mine. Never fighting a ticket again.

That's what I thought when he started yelling about it but he pulled me over because my taillights were out, I guess I should have just stopped and blocked a lane so he could tell me that.

 

[Delmar]

I hope it's not off topic, but a while back here in Elkhart co. there was a guy posing as a cop, pulling people over. It was reported on the news that if you did not feel comfortable pulling over, for some reason, call 911 and they could communicate with the officer.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Pffft, everyone knows if it was a real officer he would use his Jedi Powers to tell you to pull over.

That's why I do not stop unless I hear the Jedi, er, officer tell me to pull over inside my head. You know like when Obi-won talks to Luke in the final raid on the Death Star . . . Kirk, I'm a real officer.

 

[JoshuaW]

I hope it's not off topic, but a while back here in Elkhart co. there was a guy posing as a cop, pulling people over. It was reported on the news that if you did not feel comfortable pulling over, for some reason, call 911 and they could communicate with the officer.

Yes sir, I remember that very vividly. A close friend of the family was involved in one of those instances. She dialed 911, and they told her that no one was in the immediate area and she was clear to drive off. She did just that.

 

[jbombelli]

The way I see it, when a cop is behind me and activates the "pull over now" lights, I pull over now. I don't really care if there's not a good shoulder for him to walk on. It was his choice to pull me over right there, where there was no good shoulder. He chose the place and time for the pullover. Therefore if he has to walk out into traffic, that's not my problem.

I'm not going to pull into a parking lot; I'm not going to drive an extra half mile to where there's a nice shoulder; I'm going to pull over right now. Unless he directs otherwise.

If he wants me to pull over where there's a nice shoulder, he can feel free to activate his lights when we're by that shoulder. His choice.

This isn't difficult.

 

[finity]

MK18,

You're very confused.

Let's post up the law (again) & then break it down:

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

and

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

From the first part of the code above, you can't carry a gun:

in or on school property;

or

in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function;

or

on a school bus;

unless (from the second part of the posted law)

you may legally possess a firearm;

and

you possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by you to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.



There is no IN law that says you can't have a gun in a school zone. That is a federal law. State law provides the exemption to the federal law.

The federal "school zone" is not the same as the "school property" referenced above.

Here is the law that defines school property. Note that it does not say anything about the public roads around a school being school property:

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

 

[Blackhawk2001]

We've had several cases of individuals driving vehicles with "cop lights" on them pulling over women in isolated areas in the Central Indiana area. The guidance (as disemminated on television by a LEA representative) has been " If in doubt, drive to the nearest lighted area, call 911 to confirm that an authorized LEO has pulled you over". This applies to unmarked vehicles with the driver not in uniform. Nonuniformed officers in unmarked vehicles are not supposed to pull vehicles over for routine traffic stops.

I realize the above is not necessarily relevant to the original posting, but it was addressed in later replies.