"Get out of my house"

[DarkRose]

You did great. Only thing I would suggest. I'm not an LEO, but I keep a set of handcuffs around.

Do they have the furry lining too?

 

[Prometheus]

I didn't see anywhere where you mentioned if he was armed or not. If not, then it's probably a good thing you didn't kill him. It would be tough to prove self defense requiring deadly force was necessary when it was 3 adults against an obviously intoxicated/stoned and unarmed intruder.

Several things wrong here. In Indiana an intruder does NOT have to armed as part of the equation of "justifying" lethal force.

Also, in Indiana "disparity of force" is not needed to 'justify' lethal force inside a persons property. It could have been the entire Colts offensive line vs this guy. Wouldn't matter.

Also, the burden to "prove" self defense is on the State in a home invasion situation. It is NOT the burden of the property owner to prove self defense.

Furthermore, deadly force can be used to stop the invasion itself or theft of property inside the dwelling. It is NOT predicated upon 'self defense'.

You did great. Only thing I would suggest. I'm not an LEO, but I keep a set of handcuffs around.
If the guy is unarmed and you want to hold him for police it would be better than sitting around for 20 minutes holding a loaded gun in his face.
Glad everything turned out OK.

Unless you are planning them cuffing themselves, and even then, I wouldn't recommend it.

Someone earlier eluded to others possibly being in the house, even if you could be certain of cuffing the guy and succeeding, what about being totally focused during those few seconds and completely at the mercy of another intruder?

Prone them out, have them cross their legs, arms fully out stretched, palms up, and their face pointed away from you so they can't see you. If you have a light you can set down and keep trained on them from a shelf (without them knowing it), then they think you are looking at them the whole time, even if you have to glance away to dial 9-1-1 or whatever.

Someone else eluded to neutralizing the threat and moving on. Excellent point and I don't think that needs any explanation

 

[IndyBeerman]

You did great. Only thing I would suggest. I'm not an LEO, but I keep a set of handcuffs around.
If the guy is unarmed and you want to hold him for police it would be better than sitting around for 20 minutes holding a loaded gun in his face.
Glad everything turned out OK.

Not to rain on your parade, but are you competent enough to prone someone then handcuff them all while holding you forearm on them with out the person seeing a opportunity to disarm you?

I don't thing I'd put myself or anyone else in that position, even if I'm drawed down on them. I'm just not going to risk the BG pulling an "ya I see my way out of this" number.

Make him lay prone while you hold him there waiting for LEO's to arrive, let them cuff him, that's a job they get paid to do.

 

[O2guy]

not hard to prove you were in fear of your life at all. a big guy that looked pumped up on drugs who OBVIOUSLY broke into your house and then make a threatening move towards you after you told him to leave and gave him a chance. yeah, i think deadly force was very much authorized here. and if theres no witnesses then guess what?? he might just end up with something in his hands or a bat laying against the wall that he was trying to go after.

sorry but my house is my castle, and i will do what I feel neccessary inside of it. i dont care what a dumb law says. i will do anything i can to protect my life and my families. i will let my lawyer work out the details afterwards

two thumbs up with rep

 

[patience0830]

ok 2cents

I, for one, am very glad you didn't have to kill someone and deal with the psychological after effects or the Lawyer involved after effects. Some of you guys hell bent on killing the poor drunk bastard have probably been drunk enough in your intemperate youth to end up somewhere you weren't supposed to be and could have been shot for. I KNOW I HAVE!
I'm all for protecting myself and my family. I am not going to take unnecessary risk in doing so. BUT the OP used his head and his common sense. He assessed the threat from a ready posture, and ended the evening with all the humans involved leaving alive. He was prepared like a good boy scout with firearm and light and had back up that he trusted.

In a college town known for alcohol consumption, it would be a shame to kill some kid who just got too drunk to know where he was.

OP gets Kudos from me. I Approve brains over testicles every time.

 

[rmabrey]

IMO YOu did well, Everyone is safe and you identified things to do differently if (hopefully not) there is a next time

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

merchandise and personal property being stolen does not itself give you a right to shoot in indiana.

everything else made sense but i thought there were laws pertaining to protection of property??? maybe thats just what i want to hear but i dont know

 

[Demo]

I think I repped you patience. Hard to tell with a iPhone.

 

[Goodcat]

+1,000 to all who said get him OUT of there. There is the argument he could do the same to someone else, I "should stop him and press charges". Well, you know what? I'd personally rather protect my family and loved ones than make an attempt to apprehend a menace and risk being overthrown and disarmed with my loved ones within seconds reach of the intruder. He can leave peacefully.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You did great. Only thing I would suggest. I'm not an LEO, but I keep a set of handcuffs around.
If the guy is unarmed and you want to hold him for police it would be better than sitting around for 20 minutes holding a loaded gun in his face.
Glad everything turned out OK.

I'm no LEO either, but I bet if you don't already have them after post #40, you will: If you are not trained in handcuffing a suspect, I have seen many LEOs warn that people should not do so. Further, if you toss the cuffs to him and tell him "Put 'em on." and he replies "No.", what are you going to do, shoot him? If anything, I'd say (in my non-expert opinion), prone him out, watch closely, and get the cops on the way. With three adults, at least two armed, I think you'd be safer cuffing him than if you're by yourself, but it's still not recommended.

Best comments in this thread are above.

You did well.

Terry

I would concur. +1 Shooter521!

I do wonder at all the people who advocate shooting the perp... I think not, unless he shows himself to be a threat. State law is specific:

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.

Granted, if he's in your house at odd night hours, he's probably not there for milk and cookies, but just standing there, looking at you? Does he mean harm or maybe he's just drunk and oopsed, coming back to the wrong house and slow to respond because of it. I don't imagine I'd jump straight to "I'll kill 'im!" though.

I would feel awful if, in a rush to shoot, it turned out later that this was just the neighbor's adult son who had Down Syndrome. Too, keep in mind that the law says that the force (used) must be what you reasonably believe is necessary to end the other person's entry on your property. For me, sure, if I have to shoot, I've trained to do it, but dammit, I'm thinking I'm gonna be damn sure I have to before I start squeezing a trigger.

And yes, OP. Well done.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Hammerhead]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda...doesn't matter.

1) Person in my home in the middle of the night is a threat. Bang.

2) Person in my home whom I've given option to identify and give a good reason as to why they're there, i.e. a cop/firefighter trying to save my life from a fire/burglar/gas leak/bomb threat, doesn't do so or can't identify themselves as such, see no. 1.

3) Person who has now been given the opportunity to leave turns back to me, see no. 1.

4) Person who may or may not be armed, in my home, see no. 1.

5) Person who is drunk/drugged/stupid breaking into my home, see no. 1.

6) Person who makes a stupid mistake should be held accountable for said stupid mistake. Personal responsibility, consequences, etc. after getting drunk, high, whatever, see no. 1.

Did the OP do the right thing? Yes. Could he have used more force? Yes. Does every situation require an extreme response? No. Does the intruder deserve what he gets, no matter if it's a night in the tank, or a cold slab at the county morgue? Yes. Was the intruder very, very lucky? Yes.

The OP assessed the threat and neutralized it, even without deadly force. Did he have a reason to use deadly force? Yes, twice. Had he used deadly force, there would be no reason to feel sorry for the injured/dying/dead a**hole on the floor.

 

[Cemetery-man]

I looks like sometimes the BG may not be the intruder.

 

[Zimm1001]

I only hope I do as well if ever confronted with the same situation. My only thought/question is about handing the .380 to your buddy. I assume he was well qualified to handle it. Otherwise I might be afraid he would get trigger happy or shoot me in the back accidently. I think I would have ordered the BG to his knees and called the police (or possibly peed my pants and ran away screeming like a girl). LOLOL.

 

[96firephoenix]

hmmm... I def would not have given the pocketknife dude a gun. other than that, I think you did pretty well

I might be in the minority here, but I'm of the opinion that you should give someone the chance to get unstupid and stop threatening your life. if they don't take that chance - unload, reaload. repeat as needed.

 

[jbombelli]

I looks like sometimes the BG may not be the intruder.

An intruder is ALWAYS and AUTOMATICALLY the bad guy as far as I'm concerned.

 

[USMC_0311]

I think you did good considering it was late and you just woke up. I would caution you in the future just call the cops and stay upstairs in the bedroom. House clearing is not something you can pick up with just a couple of classes. Especially with someone else that you have not trained/practised with. I feel very confident in my skills but I still will not clear my house unless I have to. Example family member not accounted for.
All your hind site observations are right on. Beef up the security with good locks and a plan if it happens again.

 

[MikePapa1]

No one was hurt and the situation resolved so overall I think you did very well. In Indiana, a person has the right to use lethal force to terminate a burglary of their residence, with the presumption being that a person in your home is there to cause you harm.

I used to advise clients that home burglary is the stupidest crime they could commit because it gives people the license to kill them.

I'm glad you handled the situation as you did, but it's always a good idea to call the police.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I think you did good considering it was late and you just woke up. I would caution you in the future just call the cops and stay upstairs in the bedroom. House clearing is not something you can pick up with just a couple of classes. Especially with someone else that you have not trained/practised with. I feel very confident in my skills but I still will not clear my house unless I have to. Example family member not accounted for.
All your hind site observations are right on. Beef up the security with good locks and a plan if it happens again.

THANK YOU!!!! I have said this before many times on here but theres still always cowboys that are untrained that wanna go do it anyways.

I like UMC_0311 am very well trained and experienced in CQB but I would still not do it in my own home unless i needed to grab a family member and ONLY clear as much as I had to, to reach them and get to our safe room. anything else is just pointless. thats what you have insurance for. Yes i do believe we should be able to shoot criminals who are just stealing, but we cant, so why try to stop them and risk getting killed even if theres a 1% chance? i like to save my luck for when I realy need it.

 

[bigus_D]

+1 on getting that SOB out of your place.

Aside from not calling 911, you did great IMHO.

I'm glad you didn't have to kill somebody.

 

[tradertator]

I was @ my old girlfriends place on IU's campus, when we heard someone come inside the apartment. I realized he was drunk, and entered the wrong unit. I yelled for him to hit the road, and that was that. Sounds like you handled the situation admirably.