Gabe Suarez stops development of AKs, looks to other rifles

[malern28us]

Seriously, his name means nothing to me. I liken it to buying a Bear Gryllis knife. What works for you is not going to make me a Navy Seal.

 

[vitamink]

There is really only so much you can do with an AK (or any gun for that matter) and at some point you'll have to move on or risk becoming stale. I've seen all the magpul videos with Haley and Costa hanging lights, back up lights, dbals, every possible M4 manipulation enhancement, and ever optic made in the last 5 years. If you watched the first adaptive carbine video there really was no need to watch the second. When Haley left and did his new "carbine" video (whatever it was called) i didn't buy it nor have i seen it but i bet i can sum it up: Standing, kneeling, prone, zeroing, double feeds, tap rack bang, admin reload, balance of yadayadayada.... Now when his "adaptive kalash" (name still bugs me) came out i bought the **** out of it as i couldn't wait to see how he ran it. Up until then there was only Suarez and Puzikas. If Haley focused solely on Ak's and 7 years from now did "Kalashin' it up" or something, i'd quit buying as there would be nothing of value that you couldn't glean from the other 5 previous videos.

If initially Suarez chose to train folks on the Ak because it was cheap, prolific and always goes bang, it doesn't surprise me that he chose to transition to HK variants for the same reason (Id go FAL, but he'd probably note the same quality control issues that some AK's have). Someone earlier mentioned no one would want to buy a 1300 sig over a cheaper Ak. I agree that the Sig is more expensive, but if you saw where his AK builds were going, i think the sig would end up being cheaper in the long run. Kinda off topic, but a friend of mine was making fun of me for paying so much for an AR (noveske) when there are other manufacturers that make ARs that are "just as good". He then goes and shows me his RRA . He has a BCM latch, YHM rail, magpul grip and stock, troy sights, pig brake, geissle trigger etc. I pointed out that in the end he spent more switch out factory parts to make his RRA a Noveske than if he just bought a Noveske.

Start with a Kvar side folding AK, add a TWS top cover and rear peep sight etc etc just to reach the same basic general set up as the SIG and i would argue that the sig would probably be more accurate, cheaper, and easier to manipulate...And i'm a biased AK guy. If i were to pick a gun that was like an AK only better i'd go with the Valmet, unfortunately there aren't enough out there. What are his other options? If what you're looking for is piston operation, larger than .223, and side charging handle you don't have too many options. My vote would be the scar, but as someone mentioned earlier...$2300.

I certainly don't think the sig has proven itself yet and i certainly will not sell even one of my AK's. I don't fault Suarez for distancing himself from AK's though the AK fan in me feels kinda let down. It was nice having a point of reference for the, "it can't be done with an AK" crowd. Hopefully someone else will take over the AK training and development market.

 

[cedartop]

.I certainly don't think the sig has proven itself yet and i certainly will not sell even one of my AK's. I don't fault Suarez for distancing himself from AK's though the AK fan in me feels kinda let down. It was nice having a point of reference for the, "it can't be done with an AK" crowd. Hopefully someone else will take over the AK training and development market.

Nice post VitaminK. Don't worry about the training, Gabe has moved on to other things, but many of his Instructors have a lot invested in the AK platform (not just money), and will continue to teach it and work with it.

 

[MilitaryArms]

There is really only so much you can do with an AK (or any gun for that matter) and at some point you'll have to move on or risk becoming stale. I've seen all the magpul videos with Haley and Costa hanging lights, back up lights, dbals, every possible M4 manipulation enhancement, and ever optic made in the last 5 years. If you watched the first adaptive carbine video there really was no need to watch the second. When Haley left and did his new "carbine" video (whatever it was called) i didn't buy it nor have i seen it but i bet i can sum it up: Standing, kneeling, prone, zeroing, double feeds, tap rack bang, admin reload, balance of yadayadayada.... Now when his "adaptive kalash" (name still bugs me) came out i bought the **** out of it as i couldn't wait to see how he ran it. Up until then there was only Suarez and Puzikas. If Haley focused solely on Ak's and 7 years from now did "Kalashin' it up" or something, i'd quit buying as there would be nothing of value that you couldn't glean from the other 5 previous videos.

I think Gabe made it pretty clear in his post that his reason for moving away from the AK was based on the fact he couldn't wrangle 3rd party suppliers which would allow him to make his own flavor of AK. Cost doesn't appear to have been an issue. Had that venture been successful Gabe would still be doing the AK today.

If initially Suarez chose to train folks on the Ak because it was cheap, prolific and always goes bang, it doesn't surprise me that he chose to transition to HK variants for the same reason (Id go FAL, but he'd probably note the same quality control issues that some AK's have).

I was surprised by the HK clone, actually. Gabe's reasons given (aside from the fact he couldn't get parts) for dumping the AK was because there were so many bad/cheap accessories out there for it. I don't think Gabe was into the HK craze of the 1990's and early 2000's. There were plenty of junk rifle makers and junk accessory makers. His comment that an "HK is and HK is an HK" doesn't really ring true for me. Hesse, Federal Arms, Special Weapons, Bobcat, Century, etc. all made cheap and often times troubled clones of HK firearms. The HK 90 series itself is crude by today's standards, even when compared to the AK. The HK91 is one of the least user friendly rifles out there IMHO. That, and I was an HK guru back in the early 90's having owned multiple copies of HK93's, 91's, 94's a HK21 and even NFA HK's like the HK53 and MP5's. Once I had run them hard for years I realized a few things.

1) they broke parts like mad. Rollers and retainers snapped with alarming regularity. The influx of cheap parts from places like Turkey and other 3rd world countries didn't help, these parts were even more prone to failure than the German parts.
2) They are not ergonomic at all when compared to more modern designs.
3) They aren't as reliable as people think. If you keep dirt and sand out of them they run good, but debris and roller locking = nasty failures. Get a little crud in the recesses for the rollers and given their buried location in the receiver and you'll spend lots of time and frustration trying to get your rifle working again. Keep it out of the mud.
4) I learned the hard way how fragile their stamped receivers were when used with an original HK collapsible stock. When my sling let go (common problem) and my HK93 with a collapsible stock fell from my chest to the ground, it bent the receiver. When I fired the first round it fused the bolt carrier to the rear. Not fun and not what I would expect from a military rifle.

I have zero HK 90 series rifles in my collection now.

Someone earlier mentioned no one would want to buy a 1300 sig over a cheaper Ak. I agree that the Sig is more expensive, but if you saw where his AK builds were going, i think the sig would end up being cheaper in the long run.

A SGL31-94 or SGL31-94 right out of the box with a RDS is about all you need. I prefer the US PALM pistol grip... but a RDS costs the same for an AK as it does a Sig.

My vote would be the scar, but as someone mentioned earlier...$2300.

Gabe probably won't make the SCAR his go-to rifle with the intent of selling it to his customers because he knows at $2300 a copy he's not going to sell many. Take the $2300 base rifle and put $700 worth the optics on it and you're now at $3k... more mods will only drive the cost up even more, well out of the reach of many folks. He'll stick with $1500 or less solutions as base models, or so I believe. It's not just about what's the best but also what's the most marketable.

I certainly don't think the sig has proven itself yet and i certainly will not sell even one of my AK's. I don't fault Suarez for distancing himself from AK's though the AK fan in me feels kinda let down. It was nice having a point of reference for the, "it can't be done with an AK" crowd. Hopefully someone else will take over the AK training and development market.

The Sig clearly has a long way to go before it has proven itself. Given the rifles history of being poorly made and I would probably double my normal testing cycle for my own needs to make sure Sig didn't botch things with their improvements.

I've been evaluating the SCAR and ACR side-by-side for a year. I feel both would make good go-to rifles at this point. I could probably make that determination in 3-6 months if I did nothing but shoot them for that time period. But I would want a couple thousand rounds down range of a wide variety of ammo and using the rifle in multiple conditions. I had one SCAR and one ACR that I never cleaned during this testing period so I could see what it took to cause them to fail... both had zero failures which I thought was impressive.

In my experience the 556R was no more accurate than a 7.62x39 AK. Most of the 7.62x39's inaccuracy is inherent to the cartridge itself. Most ammo is steel cased non-match ammo and the ballistics of the 7.62x39 doesn't lend itself to long range accuracy either.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Quickly digging through some old pics I found this. This is but a small fraction of the HK's I once had.

 

[Clay]

Very nice!! Any of those have a happy switch...... or a happy sear pack?

 

[MilitaryArms]

Very nice!! Any of those have a happy switch...... or a happy sear pack?

The two MP5's pictured were sear guns and were S&H conversions.

 

[Clay]

The two MP5's pictured were sear guns and were S&H conversions.

 

[Fordtough25]

Both examples I have owned of HK clones left bad tastes in my mouth, no more of them in my future. Although I think the MP5 is cool, not for me.

 

[rhino]

Suarez refers to it as the "Swiss AK". I assert that the SIG-Sauer 556R is neither Swiss, nor an AK. Discuss amongst yourselves.

If it looks like a mountain dwelling, multi-lingual, always neutral duck, and it waddles like a mountain dwelling, multi-lingual, always neutral duck, and it quacks like a mountain dwelling, multi-lingual, always neutral duck, then it must be . . .

 

[Clay]

....... a 3-towed sloth?

 

[Fordtough25]

A money pit.

 

[andfc]

The timing of this conversation is great - I just picked up a .308 VEPR last week (thanks shooter521 + Bradis). I'm loving it - it's the nicest AK for my purposes, and probably the nicest rifle of its type in its general price range, at least that I know of. Suarez moving away from it doesn't change my mind at all.

My rifle is a bit different than the VEPR configuration I was originally seeing - front sight on the gas block, and there is a different and simpler rear sight. While I like the changes, they would definitely make me hesitant to build a product based off platform, especially if the factory/importers/etc aren't great at communicating. I can see why he'd move away from them as a basis for his business.

Regardless, I have been thinking about picking up some TSD 20 round .308 Vepr magazines, even though they seem a bit steep at $50/each for modified m14 mags. I'm wondering if they'll stop selling them now.

 

[sms9510]

I have never shot one or held one but I want one, 2nd gen that is. I have AK's and I always will but it just seems like the 556R is the new AK like Suarez said. I have been trying to find someone who has had a 2nd gen 556R to see how its holding up. It even works better than an AK for those of us who shoot long guns left handed with the ambi safety.