Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man

[chipbennett]

The other night in Louisville, an owner of a BBQ grill was shot and killed by police. Someone from the crowd fired shots at the police, and two police officers and two national guardsmen returned fire back into the crowd. A recurring theme among a lot of conservatives is, if they're in a life of crime they're bringing it on themselves. That sounds a lot like justifying the shooting of people who don't always need shot.

Anyway this man was well liked in his community and not a criminal. But I suspect that some people reading this will find a way to justify it. "Why was he breaking curfew?" That's not a capital offense. The right question is why did those officers fire into a group of people?

Sounds like a violation of Rule 4, to me.

 

[chipbennett]

Thank God you're here...I'm starting to feel like I'm taking crazy pills around here.

To be fair, I'm only seeing one person trying to absolve the police officer(s) of culpability, and everyone else disagreeing. But, thank you.

 

[Route 45]

To be fair, I'm only seeing one person trying to absolve the police officer(s) of culpability, and everyone else disagreeing. But, thank you.

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone absolving Officer Happy Knee except the new Dutchy guy.

 

[Mark-DuCo]

Vandalism hit a little close to home last night here in Dubois County. I'm sure it was just some local young people, but it's going to really fire up our community.

https://www.facebook.com/18Wjts/photos/pcb.2958669284201850/2958668997535212/?type=3&theater

 

[smokingman]

wow.

https://twitter.com/ZoomerClips/status/1267657673845075968

If you get on your knees because you where born a certain color you do not deserve to be an American citizen.

 

[OurDee]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1220416


At some point if not currently it was training.

"The version of the Minneapolis Police Department's policy manual that is available on-line, however, does permit the use of neck restraints that can render suspects unconscious, and the protocol for their use has not been updated for more than eight years."

"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

I wonder how this will play out in court if it comes out that it is the current training. The officer is not a medical doctor and was just going by his training provided to him? What will happen when he is set free?

 

[MCgrease08]

If you have never been taught to respect others, taught that might makes right. Seen or taught that its ok to hit a woman or speak to her like she's worthless or below you. Taught that its ok to hit teachers. Taught that fighting or shooting is the way to solve all your problens. Taught that the whole reason you grew up in poverty or anything bad that happened to you was the white mans fault. Taught that the police only want to kill you and that its ok to disrespect the police, harm the police, run from the police, even kill the police. Taught that its ok to steal from others to get yours. Taught that its ok to abandon your children.
Yeah i know what the problem is and its not the cops.

Pretty obvious when we can see whole sections of the city go to hell and down in value and spike in crime. I know why, you do to even if you refuse to admit it.
Theres a problem within the black community. Until they choose to stop blaming others for their problems and choose to work hard and go earn a better life and become productive members of society, then this **** is just going to keep happening

I agree with this, but wagging a finger from afar and saying, "it's their own fault" doesn't help the community get away from that mindset.

I don't know what the answer is, or how we as a society can get to a point to where we can actually discuss the root causes of the issues. All of the things you laid out are root causes, but it's human nature for people to get defensive and angry when someone else, particularly an "outsider" confronts them with that reality.

It works the other way too. Black people say whites don't understand their daily struggles. There is some truth to that too, but we often want to immediately dismiss it. Both sides need to actually hear one another and empathize and understand first, before we will see any change. Unfortunately there is no incentive for media or politicians to actually fix the problem.

Remember, the devil seeks to isolate, divide, sow fear and distrust. He changes the conversation constantly because he doesn't want us focused on the real issue.

Ecclesiastes 4 says,

1 Again, I observed all the oppression that takes place under the sun. I saw the tears of the oppressed, with no one to comfort them. The oppressors have great power, and their victims are helpless. 2 So I concluded that the dead are better off than the living. 3 But most fortunate of all are those who are not yet born. For they have not seen all the evil that is done under the sun.

4 Then I observed that most people are motivated to success because they envy their neighbors. But this, too, is meaningless—like chasing the wind.

5 “Fools fold their idle hands, leading them to ruin.” 6 And yet, “Better to have one handful with quietness than two handfuls with hard work and chasing the wind.”

7 I observed yet another example of something meaningless under the sun. 8 This is the case of a man who is all alone, without a child or a brother, yet who works hard to gain as much wealth as he can. But then he asks himself, “Who am I working for? Why am I giving up so much pleasure now?” It is all so meaningless and depressing.

9 Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. 10 If one person falls, the other can reach out and help. But someone who falls alone is in real trouble. 11 Likewise, two people lying close together can keep each other warm. But how can one be warm alone? 12 A person standing alone can be attacked and defeated, but two can stand back-to-back and conquer. Three are even better, for a triple-braided cord is not easily broken.

 

[jsharmon7]

I completely agree. I think the mindset of a lot of cops and departments is wrong. I see innocent white and other people being needlessly slain or what i think is murdered by the police all the time.
What will help fix that? The immunity cops have

I disagree that police shouldn’t have qualified immunity. The things LE does in the course of business is not the same as what any other group does. Now, if you want to argue that changes should be made as to how it’s interpreted, I’d be with you. Many have discussed citizen review boards for use of force. I think it’s a great idea under three conditions:

1) Citizens appointed to that board go through a week of the SAME use of force training as police. No pulling punches either, so you’ll need reasonably healthy people so they have some level of understanding what it takes to actually subdue a resistor.

2) Another week of force-on-force with sim rounds. They need to see how quickly things happen and feel the adrenaline of making split-second decisions. You could live or die based on a decision that will be picked apart for years.

3) A requirement of one or two ride-alongs per month. They need to see the reality of police work and how people really behave.

If people in the community are serious about making improvement, none of that should be unreasonable.

 

[Route 45]

I wonder how this will play out in court if it comes out that it is the current training. The officer is not a medical doctor and was just going by his training provided to him?

From the story:

The on-line version of the policy manual says, "The unconscious neck restraint shall only be applied … 1. On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or; 2. For life saving purposes, or; 3. On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective."
The passage includes a date in parentheses, April 16, 2012. The front of the manual is dated July 28, 2016.

Looks like a neck restraint is only authorized to gain control of a suspect if lesser methods would not likely be effective. I don't see any justification for 8 minutes of neck restraint in that policy.

But you never know what a jury is going to do, especially if the defense is exceedingly good at their job.

What will happen when he is set free?

Roof Koreans.

 

[Dutchisaurus]

Let's assume all of this is correct.

The man was arrested for allegedly passing a counterfeit $20 bill. Why was he laid out prone on the ground? Why was the officer "hovering" his knee over his neck? Why was he not standing/sitting while handcuffed while being detained?

From what I read he resisted twice. Once getting out of his vehicle and then while they were trying to put him in the police car.

"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

 

[Dutchisaurus]

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone absolving Officer Happy Knee except the new Dutchy guy.

I didn't absolve him. I just said there is nothing conclusively damning him nor absolving him. It's not the Vietnam video where the cop pulled out his gun and executed the guy.

I just had a few of the puzzle pieces and laid them out.

It's clear that neck restraints were or are currently taught. So much so that there are chapters on it in the ME handbook as well.



"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

 

[Hatin Since 87]

From what I read he resisted twice. Once getting out of his vehicle and then while they were trying to put him in the police car.

"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

In the police car? I must’ve saw a different video. I never saw an attempt to put him in the police car. Went from his car, to the ground, to the ambulance from what I saw

 

[Route 45]

I didn't absolve him. I just said there is nothing conclusively damning him nor absolving him. It's not the Vietnam video where the cop pulled out his gun and executed the guy.

I just had a few of the puzzle pieces and laid them out.

It's clear that neck restraints were or are currently taught. So much so that there are chapters on it in the ME handbook as well.

"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

I'm seriously doubting that the "neck restraint" technique is taught as physically placing your entire body weight on the neck of a prone and handcuffed person for 8 minutes.

I'm familiar with the term "neck restraint," and way back when, this was largely understood as the sleeper hold or rear naked choke hold.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

sleeper hold or rear naked choke hold.

In my experience I’ve found the rear naked choke hold to be much more easily performed once the sleeper hold has been applied first.


Hard to get their clothes off while they’re still struggling.

 

[Route 45]

In my experience I’ve found the rear naked choke hold to be much more easily performed once the sleeper hold has been applied first.


Hard to get their clothes off while they’re still struggling.

 

[OurDee]

I found a clip looking at Charlotteville and what went wrong with their riot. Tactics are discussed a little.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9bit2-1pg

 

[Dutchisaurus]

In the police car? I must’ve saw a different video. I never saw an attempt to put him in the police car. Went from his car, to the ground, to the ambulance from what I saw

Just going with the puzzle pieces I have seen.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1218556

"Floyd initially cooperated but then "actively resisted being handcuffed," the complaint said. But once "handcuffed, Mr. Floyd became compliant," according to prosecutors."


This was when in the video he is finally sat down on the curb.


There's another I'll find if you want that says after that he actively resisted getting in the police car, said he was claustrophobic...




"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

 

[Dutchisaurus]

I'm seriously doubting that the "neck restraint" technique is taught as physically placing your entire body weight on the neck of a prone and handcuffed person for 8 minutes.

I'm familiar with the term "neck restraint," and way back when, this was largely understood as the sleeper hold or rear naked choke hold.

As I asked before. Where is the video that conclusively shows him putting all his body weight on him? Or are you just assuming he did? I would assume that if one put the full force of their weight on his neck there would be asphyxiation or strangulation, but there is neither.

There is no smoking gun either way in that video.

"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

 

[Route 45]

It's clear that neck restraints were or are currently taught. So much so that there are chapters on it in the ME handbook as well.

"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" - Lots of people, not just me me me

I didn't see a description of neck restraint techniques in the Minneapolis manual information online.

Do you even know what a "neck restraint" is, with regards to police training? Which police academy did you attend?

Here, learn something:

https://www.policemag.com/506561/unlocking-the-confusion-around-chokeholds

By the way, ME is Maine. Minnesota is MN.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

As I asked before. Where is the video that conclusively shows him putting all his body weight on him? Or are you just assuming he did? I would assume that if one put the full force of their weight on his neck there would be asphyxiation or strangulation, but there is neither.

There is no smoking gun either way in that video.

"If you can loot in person, you can Vote in person" -Me

Well, our loved BBI explained why the autopsy probably wouldn’t show asphyxiation to be the cause of death. I’m too lazy to look it up, but I’d take BBI’s word as gold when it comes to anything like this.