For those of you who support abortion...

[Classic]

Deliberately cutting the spinal cord, crushing the skull or beheading of a partially born child goes way beyond anything even resembling "Reproductive Rights". Try to clean it up any way you choose with semantics but murder by any other name is still murder. Disgusting!

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The media blackout on this is disgusting TweetFest: #Gosnell trends as Twitterers demand an end to the media blackout | Twitchy

 

[UncleMike]

The media blackout on this is disgusting TweetFest: #Gosnell trends as Twitterers demand an end to the media blackout | Twitchy

Reporting on this trial would show the Liberal Media to be exactly what they are.
Hypocrites!!!
They demand that we give up our Second Amendment Rights "For the Children".
And then they promote, and cover up, the murder of babies.
Hopefully there's a special place in Hell for those bastards.

 

[Dagoney22]

Just like pretty much everything, there is no absolute right or wrong...but to say all in or all out is pretty unfair. If you found out your daughter had been raped by a serial killer and was 4 weeks pregnant...do you wreck her life or abort and move on...now if we have a prom night baby that's another story...Think about it...Absolutes are the devils advocate. always be flexible.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If you found out your daughter had been raped by a serial killer and was 4 weeks pregnant...do you wreck her life or abort and move on...Think about it

It's too bad the baby doesn't get a vote. I wonder what s/he would think?

Absolutes are the devils advocate. always be flexible.

I'm pretty sure murdering innocent human beings is always, absolutely wrong.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Just like pretty much everything, there is no absolute right or wrong...but to say all in or all out is pretty unfair. If you found out your daughter had been raped by a serial killer and was 4 weeks pregnant...do you wreck her life or abort and move on...now if we have a prom night baby that's another story...Think about it...Absolutes are the devils advocate. always be flexible.

Pretty sure adoption is a thing.

 

[UncleMike]

Pretty sure adoption is a thing.

So is accepting the situation and getting on with life.

I know about a couple who were very much in love and had made plans to marry.
The girl told her fiancé that she was pregnant and that the child was not his.
At first he was furious and said that he couldn’t marry her.
I’m sure that he had considered the idea that if she would “lose” the child he would be spared the ridicule from his friends and family over marrying a girl who was pregnant with someone else’s child
After reflecting on the situation and receiving advice from a third party he relented and married the girl.
Some month later his wife delivered a baby boy.
They named him Jesus.
Kinda makes me glad he didn’t ask her to “lose” the baby.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Honest question:

What is the history of "abortion"?

What came first? The need/want to kill something before it comes out of you for some reason, or the desire to not kill things?

I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like a very far-out-there sort of thing to "be for"... while also being for "protecting children!" and that sort of bull****. Did lefties adopt the abortion stance because righties were against it? Or did righties become against it because lefties found it to be something good to do?

 

[AtTheMurph]

I think the public is already against partial birth abortions and the killing of a baby after they are born, which is what it looks like was happening here. I did see where labor was induced early in at least one case mentioned. However, since the baby was breathing when it came out, it was a live person. To me, this means the pregnancy was terminated too late. Either way, it seems this doctor abused his powers granted by his profession, which is the real issue here.

So if you can't breathe you aren't a human? Seems arbitrary and capricious.

 

[Mark33]

Pray, just pray.

 

[arthrimus]

Just like pretty much everything, there is no absolute right or wrong...but to say all in or all out is pretty unfair. If you found out your daughter had been raped by a serial killer and was 4 weeks pregnant...do you wreck her life or abort and move on...now if we have a prom night baby that's another story...Think about it...Absolutes are the devils advocate. always be flexible.

Sorry man, but rights are by definition absolute, and the right to life is the preeminent right of all humans. The circumstances surrounding a pregnancy are completely irrelevant when discussing the right of that human life to be allowed to continue. Your argument hinges on a scenario which is intended to elicit an emotional response that agrees with your position. What I or anyone else would find to be the least painful, or the most convenient in your scenario has nothing to do with the philosophical question being posed here.

At the moment of conception a completely unique DNA sequence is created which does not mirror that of the mother or the father. That is definitive proof of new life created; an entity that is wholly different from the mother in whom it resides. The child is no longer a component of her body.

I have seen plenty of talk about the time at which "real life" begins. Most of the talk focuses on the point at which the child has developed it's own vital signs. While a cursory evaluation of the concept of "real life" vs what I suppose must be "fake life" may resonate as a sound and reasonable line to draw. A deeper evaluation of the notion would reveal that it is actually completely arbitrary line; which is qualified neither by science nor philosophy.

Scientifically speaking the development of vital systems is completely irrelevant in defining what is and is not life, because a four week old fetus with a pulse is no more viable than a 3 week old fetus with no pulse. It's technically a landmark in fetal development, but is in no way a definitive mark of the beginning of "personhood". So science says the line is arbitrary and unfounded.

Philosophically speaking the development of specific organs has no bearing on the validity of a life because philosophy shouldn't be concerned with the science of the matter beyond the establishment of uniqueness. For a line to be drawn based on philosophy then the logical line to draw would be the point at which the fetus attains sentience. The line of sentience seems, on the surface, to be a sound one, but drawing this line for the fetus has far reaching consequences which may not be immediately apparent. People in comatose or vegetative states would suddenly cease to be living humans, and loose their right to life. After all, they are not sentient either, and if sentience is the litmus test for life, then they are not alive. The safe answer then is not that sentience be the line, but perhaps the potential for sentience. A fetus has potential to develop into a sentient human because it is genetically human, and undergoing the natural process of development which leads to a sentient being; just as a coma patient has the potential to recover sentience because he still contains all of the necessary components required for it.

In light of these things, one must conclude that abortion in any capacity is murder, no matter how convenient it may be.

I would add though, that emergency contraceptives such as Plan B are in fact not abortions, and are therefore completely sound practice. Those contraceptive methods stop ovulation, or impede fertilization. This means that the egg is never actually fertilized, and conception never occurs. This is no different than taking birth control before the sexual act, or using some barrier method of birth control. I support and highly encourage the use of emergency contraceptives like these, especially for rape victims.

 

[apfroggy0408]

Arthrimus, thanks for the thoughtful post. I agree that trying to define like, except for at conception, is very subjective. The only logical definition for the beginning of life has to be conception because all other points are dependent on what one thinks is a good beginning of life. That I will not argue with.

Where we separate on our philosophical belief abortion starts after that.

Abortion is a very important topic but one that will tear people apart so quickly. I think our best bet to stop people from having an abortion is trying to educate people on the sanctity of life, because making it illegal won't stop it from happening.

I've never considered myself pro-life or pro-choice because abortion is so much more complicated than that.

I'll try to give you another philosophical point of view and hopefully we can have an open discussion from such an approach.

The right to life, I agree, is the pinnacle from which all other rights stem from. You can't possibly claim to have property rights without a right to life. You can't own the fruit of your labor without a right to life.

But what rights, within human interaction, precede each other?

I'm sure you would agree that as human beings we own our own bodies. Without said ownership of our bodies there are no property rights. So if we accept this as true it follows that only I, who controls my body, has the right to decide what I do with it, so long as the use of that body doesn't impede on the rights of another person's body.

This, for many people, is where people believe you must be against abortion in all ways. But this is where I believe that abortion becomes the decision of the person. If a woman ultimately owns her own body she has the ultimate choice over what she is to do with that body.

If she ends of getting pregnant from her choices or even not of her choice (rape) she still owns her body. At this point whose property rights, in their body, precedes the other? I claim that the bearer of the baby does, because if at some point the woman decides that she no longer wants the baby the baby now becomes an "invader" of her property right to her body. Like any other type of invader they have no right to be where they are anymore and ipso facto the mother then can have an abortion to cease the invasion of her property right in her body.

If someone, in their last hope to live, attempts to ask for your help or tries to steal to live what does this entail? Well you do not have to help them and no one should force you to do so, although I hope we all would help. If they steal to live it is still wrong because they are using aggression.

Again, this is a serious topic, and I would always advise women that I know to not have an abortion because I believe life is so precious.

So how exactly can we curb people from having abortion like I would like to? I don't think legislation would be much help. I'm also not for having tax payers pay for said abortions.

I think the best approach is that of a free market approach. Currently we aren't allowing people to sell their own babies. If we had a market approach for the sale of babies people would see that they could have the baby and sell it to a family that is wanting one, and we know this area of the market is super abundant. If this was to happen I believe we would see a dramatic drop in abortions and at the same time have a rise in good families obtaining a child that they could never have.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Gosnell found guilty.

Planned Parenthood twitter account thinks it's sad that an adult woman died. Oddly, they didn't mention the babies.

 

[UncleMike]

Gosnell found guilty.

Planned Parenthood twitter account thinks it's sad that an adult woman died. Oddly, they didn't mention the babies.

That's because babies can't vote.
Once they're dead they're automatically registered Democrats.

 

[Shadow8088]

Sorry.. "sanctity of life" doesn't apply to a small bundle of dividing cells that are vacuumed from the side of the uterus... you kill more living cells having blood drawn. You want to talk about later stages of development, i'm willing to come to the table and discuss it...

and what that jackhole did was NOT abortion.. it was murder...

 

[Cameramonkey]

There are already 115,000 eligible for adoption in the USA ... Right now. How many more do you want?

Facts and Statistics

Meh, but the vast majority want to adopt kids like pets... They are only happy to get them when they are small, cute, and cuddly. PFFFF! Who cares about something older than a toddler. Its sad.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not my body, not my choice. How I feel personally about abortion doesn't allow me to force my beliefs on a person who wishes to terminate a pregnancy that nots viable outside of the womb.

 

[cordex]

and what that jackhole did was NOT abortion.. it was murder...

I get the outrage from those who are generally opposed to abortion, but i don't understand the righteous indignation from those who support it.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, if he had instead killed it merely a few minutes earlier, just prior to birth, it would have been a legal late-term abortion. Where is the moral distinction between what Gosnell did and a properly performed late-term abortion?

 

[Shadow8088]

I get the outrage from those who are generally opposed to abortion, but i don't understand the righteous indignation from those who support it.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, if he had instead killed it merely a few minutes earlier, just prior to birth, it would have been a legal late-term abortion. Where is the moral distinction between what Gosnell did and a properly performed late-term abortion?

So you'll take what I said at the bottom of my post, and ignore what I said above it? sheesh.. (I believe that's called cherry picking)

 

[HARVEYtheDAMNED]

Some questions for those who are pro-life.

Would you consider an abortion of a 48 hour old fetus to be murder?

How about 16 weeks?

If so, how do you think it should be punished?

In regards to sex education, do you support abstinence, safe sex, or both?