For non-firearms self-defense for women: Pepper Spray vs. Stun Gun

[CraigAPS]

Where is the person going to carry them? Will they train with either?

In her purse. Hopefully (which I say as no one can make someone get into a habit), she will get into the habit of getting the spray out before leaving where ever she may be, as well as getting her keys out to have them handy. This, at least with my limited knowledge, seems to be about the safest course of action. I hope she will train with both. Again, I can't make her do anything. I just want to be able to give as much information and encouragement to get her to make some decisions about taking her own safety into her hands.

 

[Sylvain]

A collapsible baton takes some training and some strenght to use it.

And it's pretty much useless if she's going to carry it in her purse (probably the first thing that will be taken away from her if grabbed by an attacker).

 

[wtfd661]

Having worked in a large jail for almost 15 years I would say to go the pepper spray route particularly this type Def-Tec 5039 First Defense MK-3 1.47 oz. Stream Pepper Spray, I have used it literally hundreds of times on all types of aggressive people, drunk, high, mentally unstable and it all but once had an effect on them (usually not what they wanted ). They advice I give is if using it for self defense, spray above the eyes or into the eyes with the wind at your back and then run like hell!

 

[OakRiver]

A collapsible baton takes some training and some strenght to use it.

And it's pretty much useless if she's going to carry it in her purse (probably the first thing that will be taken away from her if grabbed by an attacker).

Where do you see her storing her pepper spray?
I was suggesting the baton as a sudden change in the wind, or confined spaces, will not have the same effect on it as pepper spray - which may incapacitate the user.

 

[Sylvain]

Where do you see her storing her pepper spray?
I was suggesting the baton as a sudden change in the wind, or confined spaces, will not have the same effect on it as pepper spray - which may incapacitate the user.

In her pocket for quick access? I guess she could keep the baton on her person as well.

The baton is a great weapon for the reasons you mentioned, you can use it with mutliple attackers as well, where with pepper spray you might just have enough to spray one or two (depending on the size of the can).

Not to mention it's a good tool to use in other situation as well, like breaking glass if you need to escape a building, or a car.Or get to someone in a car etc.

But it takes more knowledge to use it (if possible some martial art training in stick fighting), it can be lethal (which can be both a good and bad thing depending what you are trying to do), it takes some strenght as well (also depending on the size of the baton), you need to practice opening it under stress and such ...

The OP is looking for a "no training required" type of weapon (from what I understand), I would not put the baton in that category.

With pepper spray it's easier: Take it out, point at bad guy, push button.

But like you mentioned, if she's going to use pepper spray, she should be aware of when NOT to use it (too much wind, small spaces).

 

[CraigAPS]

Not "no training," but minimal training. I know she will not take the time to fully master a more complicated weapon, nor does she have enough time to master one if she has any chance at all of being able to even put up a fight should she be attacked again. Weapons like knives take immense amounts of time and training to wield safely and effectively. While easily concealed and able to inflict lethal or less than lethal wounds, it can be, in the untrained hand, dangerous to the wielder. A baton, while it can also be dangerous to the wielder (i.e. if taken away and used on the wielder), can be used effectively with less (not none) training than a knife. It can also be concealed on a belt, in a pocket, in a purse, etc. However, it is likely to be slower getting it out in an attack. Pepper spray takes less training (really just practice) and a little common sense to effectively use. Also can be concealed in pocket, purse, etc. It's also fairly innocuous to carry in one's hand while walking home or to a vehicle. My thinking, with all that has been said here, is that a decent plan would be for my friend to keep pepper spray in her hand as she walks to her vehicle. She could use the spray to give her the time to run, get in her vehicle, or pull out a baton from her purse. I also will try to get her to get SD training.

 

[Sylvain]

Not "no training," but minimal training. I know she will not take the time to fully master a more complicated weapon, nor does she have enough time to master one if she has any chance at all of being able to even put up a fight should she be attacked again. Weapons like knives take immense amounts of time and training to wield safely and effectively. While easily concealed and able to inflict lethal or less than lethal wounds, it can be, in the untrained hand, dangerous to the wielder. A baton, while it can also be dangerous to the wielder (i.e. if taken away and used on the wielder), can be used effectively with less (not none) training than a knife. It can also be concealed on a belt, in a pocket, in a purse, etc. However, it is likely to be slower getting it out in an attack. Pepper spray takes less training (really just practice) and a little common sense to effectively use. Also can be concealed in pocket, purse, etc. It's also fairly innocuous to carry in one's hand while walking home or to a vehicle. My thinking, with all that has been said here, is that a decent plan would be for my friend to keep pepper spray in her hand as she walks to her vehicle. She could use the spray to give her the time to run, get in her vehicle, or pull out a baton from her purse. I also will try to get her to get SD training.

Her best option is probably some SD training and knowledge of tactics, situational awarness and all that good stuff that you can use whenever you are armed or unarmed.

Doesn't matter if you're carrying a gun, pepper spray, baton or a pen if you don't see your attacker coming.

 

[looney2ns]

Sabre Red Pepper Spray.
Amazon carries several different type canisters. Around $10.
They have instructional videos on their website.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Fosterimpactdevices.com and look at coin sap. Better than a comb, more likely to actually be carried, minimal training required. Still not my top choice, but likely the one most likely to be minimally practiced with and carried.

 

[CraigAPS]

Fosterimpactdevices.com and look at coin sap. Better than a comb, more likely to actually be carried, minimal training required. Still not my top choice, but likely the one most likely to be minimally practiced with and carried.

Wow! First, I had no clue that saps/blackjacks were still being made! Second, those are legal??

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Wow! First, I had no clue that saps/blackjacks were still being made! Second, those are legal??

I don't know anywhere in the US a coin purse isn't legal. I'm unaware of any Indiana law that would restrict a sap.

I've seriously considered one of these for European travel.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;cB-N7Sc9Bpw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB-N7Sc9Bpw[/video]

I'd enjoy seeing the comb employed against a physically superior attacker (as a female victim is likely to face) at real speeds. Particularly by someone with no or minimal unarmed fighting training, which is the person who will be carrying a comb for self defense.

I believe the video was to encourage the use of everyday items to enhance your minimal hand to hand skills. The knowledge of how and where to place whatever device used would be important. As would awareness and some blocking.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Unless she is willing to kick somebody's teeth down their throat, I suggest getting her one of those portable air horns.

If she is willing to take the fight to her attacker, then she should learn to use some proper tools like the rest of us. If she is not willing to take the fight to her attacker (as would be required to use pepper spray, tasers, saps, umbrellas, nunchucks, glocks, etc), then what good would any weapon be? If she is willing to attack and understands what fighting back might require, she needs to suck it up and start carrying a gun.

If the person's objection to carrying a gun is that they do not want to kill someone, what good is an impact tool to that person? If you are not willing to fight, why gear up for a fight?

If she is willing and able to fight, she should carry a gun.
If she is not willing and able to fight, I see no point in giving her a weapon. Weapons are not worth anything unless you are willing to fight with them.

Seriously, those air horns are super loud.

 

[CraigAPS]

Unless she is willing to kick somebody's teeth down their throat, I suggest getting her one of those portable air horns.

If she is willing to take the fight to her attacker, then she should learn to use some proper tools like the rest of us. If she is not willing to take the fight to her attacker (as would be required to use pepper spray, tasers, saps, umbrellas, nunchucks, glocks, etc), then what good would any weapon be? If she is willing to attack and understands what fighting back might require, she needs to suck it up and start carrying a gun.

If the person's objection to carrying a gun is that they do not want to kill someone, what good is an impact tool to that person? If you are not willing to fight, why gear up for a fight?

If she is willing and able to fight, she should carry a gun.
If she is not willing and able to fight, I see no point in giving her a weapon. Weapons are not worth anything unless you are willing to fight with them.

Seriously, those air horns are super loud.

Well, first, I don't think she will be kicking anyone's teeth in. Second, Do you not see a difference between less than lethal impact weapons/deterrents and a firearm?? Pepper spray/sap/baton are not meant to kill. Using those are EXTREMELY different from using a firearm and taking someone's life. You seem to be implying that, in order to defend oneself, one must kill the attacker. Firearms are notfor everyone. Someone does not need to carry a gun to defend oneself. There are different types of weapons for different purposes. Third, you seem to imply, that, if one is not carrying a firearm, that person is not allowed to carry anything else, and, therefore, if not armed at all, is not able to defend him/herself, but s/he must instead hope that alerting others with an air horn and hoping that someone else comes to the rescue is the best that person may hope for. I find that idea very disturbing.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Well, first, I don't think she will be kicking anyone's teeth in. Second, Do you not see a difference between less than lethal impact weapons/deterrents and a firearm?? Pepper spray/sap/baton are not meant to kill. Using those are EXTREMELY different from using a firearm and taking someone's life. You seem to be implying that, in order to defend oneself, one must kill the attacker. Firearms are notfor everyone. Someone does not need to carry a gun to defend oneself. There are different types of weapons for different purposes. Third, you seem to imply, that, if one is not carrying a firearm, that person is not allowed to carry anything else, and, therefore, if not armed at all, is not able to defend him/herself, but s/he must instead hope that alerting others with an air horn and hoping that someone else comes to the rescue is the best that person may hope for. I find that idea very disturbing.

Man, I screwed that up. I am not at all implying that you must kill your attacker to defend you need to kill them, or that a gun is the only weapon. Forget I even said anything, get her one of those keychains with the spikes on it or whatever.

 

[Sylvain]

Well, first, I don't think she will be kicking anyone's teeth in. Second, Do you not see a difference between less than lethal impact weapons/deterrents and a firearm?? Pepper spray/sap/baton are not meant to kill. Using those are EXTREMELY different from using a firearm and taking someone's life. You seem to be implying that, in order to defend oneself, one must kill the attacker. Firearms are notfor everyone. Someone does not need to carry a gun to defend oneself. There are different types of weapons for different purposes. Third, you seem to imply, that, if one is not carrying a firearm, that person is not allowed to carry anything else, and, therefore, if not armed at all, is not able to defend him/herself, but s/he must instead hope that alerting others with an air horn and hoping that someone else comes to the rescue is the best that person may hope for. I find that idea very disturbing.

I think he just meant that with any weapon you need to be mentally prepared to take someone's life, and be willing to use that tool on somebody.
That's not just the case with firearms.
You can easily kill someone with your bare hands, people have died after being tased, a baton can kill if you strike some areas .... etc.

 

[SMiller]

Skip the tools that she won't use and that will be used against her and instead take a managing confrontations class so she can see the threat coming.