FIVE Reasons why FREE Community College is a Terrible Idea

[jamil]

I see you've convinced yourself of the "rightness" of the way you think about the matter. As I said before, just because you think it, doesn't make it so.

There are numerous demands on the government for funds. Just because a GI gets a benefit (which I did) does not make it a higher priority than some other worthy endeavor. All programs compete for resources. Just because you believe that GI benefits has a higher priority than education of our workforce doesn't mean that the citizenry believes that prioritization is valid.

In many respects, GI's are underfunded. Medical costs of deployment are never fully factored into wars. Families receive limited death benefits, nothing for pain and suffering, and less than necessary for the long term medical consequences of war. You seem satisfied to express your ideology. Have you worked toward improving the situation for veterans in support of those beliefs?

On a personal basis, I funded private colleges for both of my sons. My contribution at this point is solely from property taxes.

That's why it's called an opinion. I can say the same about you and your belief in the rightness of your opinion.

I agree with you on GI's. The VA medical system is a sham. My brother's death panel decided to cut its losses. He's now in an urn on someone's mantle.

 

[JollyMon]

As I said before, just because you think it, doesn't make it so.

Touche

 

[Alpo]

I developed my opinion based upon the emphasis placed on education by my parents, and their parents before them. That doesn't make it right...you are correct in that. However, it is a basic core belief of mine.

 

[eldirector]

No. We have allowed the UNIVERSITIES to impoverish students with 8~10 percent year-over-year tuition increases. The banks are willing enablers to policies zealously pursued by the Education Industry and their patrons in the Government.

The Schools have sucked the students dry. Now, having exhausted that "host," they seek to disengage and re-attach their lamprey mouths to the US Taxpayer, via "Free College."

Uh, no.

We allowed are children, or ourselves, to go into debt chasing a purple unicorn.

There are plenty of ways to earn a quality education cash-on-the-barrelhead.

Instead, we have asked colleges to be some sort of social club, gym, and "safe space". We want fancy meals. World-class sports arenas. Clubs, clubs, and more clubs. It all comes at a cost. Schools are happy to provide it (and make the $$$), banks are happy to make the loan (and make some $$$). Governments are happy to provide grants (from YOUR $$$).

Even the community colleges get in on this. Offering certifications and degrees that simply don't translate into meaningful employment.

Just like the so-called housing bust. Banks and builders never FORCED anyone to buy more than they could afford. We did that all on our own.

Of course, this is more like ObamaCare. Forcing all of us to pay for college educations that aren't going to amount to much in the end.

 

[JollyMon]

I developed my opinion based upon the emphasis placed on education by my parents, and their parents before them. That doesn't make it right...you are correct in that. However, it is a basic core belief of mine.

I also have a core belief that education is important which was instilled from my family..... but my parents also taught me to work for my dreams and if something is given free one has much less respect for the said item.

 

[actaeon277]

So, where does it stop?

We have a minimum wage for minimum work. Folks want more. Why stop at $15? Why not $100?

We have tax-funded education. Up to 12th grade, and even a LOT college. Why stop there? Why not Harvard Law for everyone?

We have State-mandated health care. Why stop there? Why not State-mandated diets, gym memberships, and preventative care? And why is all that not free?

Just think how great this nation would be if we all held advanced degrees, all earned $100/hr, and all were as healthy as possible. All we have to do is mandate it!

Now you're thinking like a citizen of the new democratic republic of Kalifornistan.

 

[actaeon277]

I don't have anything to add except I pretty much agree with Actaeon here mostly

Obligatory "get to the choppa"
Lol

Mostly agree with is fine with me.


Alpo, you stated education needs to be a priority, and I agree. I just disagree that it has to do with anything with the Feds.
You were talking about people not being able to read/write/etc, well college won't fix that.
That needs to be fixed at the K-12 area. And a big part of the fixing needs to be the attitude change of parents sending undisciplined children and expecting the "system" to do all the lifting.
(In my opinion).

 

[HoughMade]

I developed my opinion based upon the emphasis placed on education by my parents, and their parents before them. That doesn't make it right...you are correct in that. However, it is a basic core belief of mine.

My parents valued education greatly as do my wife and I. Which is why my parents sacrificed to help me pay for college and why my wife and I have prioritized our kids getting the education they need...the weird thing is we haven't asked the taxpayer for anything....well, other than me, the taxpayer.

 

[jamil]

I developed my opinion based upon the emphasis placed on education by my parents, and their parents before them. That doesn't make it right...you are correct in that. However, it is a basic core belief of mine.

I developed my opinion based upon the emphasis placed on personal responsibility by my parents and their parents before them. I'll add that life has taught me to place an emphasis on education. Those are both basic, core beliefs of mine.

I also believe education is important. Our disagreement is what to do about it. Making community college tuition free is not the only way, or necessarily even *a* way to solve the problem of not enough people being educated.

 

[Alpo]

I also have a core belief that education is important which was instilled from my family..... but my parents also taught me to work for my dreams and if something is given free one has much less respect for the said item.

That's wonderful. If you have a chance to save up the 60 grand for Princeton each year, by all means do so. Some very bright students who potentially could change the world can't afford that.

But, I suppose they could be looked down upon for not working for it. Always a good way to make sure Nobel Prize winners don't get too uppity.

 

[JollyMon]

That's wonderful. If you have a chance to save up the 60 grand for Princeton each year, by all means do so. Some very bright students who potentially could change the world can't afford that.

But, I suppose they could be looked down upon for not working for it. Always a good way to make sure Nobel Prize winners don't get too uppity.

And you think with Bernies plan they will go to Princeton? Ha.... Is his plan going to spend 60K a year? There are a lot of other colleges out there that are a lot cheaper that are very affordable to individuals who are motivated.

But by all means, use the most extreme examples to try and bolster your argument.

 

[HoughMade]

If college at a public university were offered to all and paid for by tax dollars in full, we would end up with parallel systems where the haves go to private institutions and the have nots go to the "free" public ones, with the private institutions skimmimg off the smartest have nots with scholarships.

The value of the public education will be devalued and the "you'll make X more per year" promises will go unfulfilled.

In other words, the only thing that will change is a hyperbolic acceleration of education costs because of the injection of even more federal money.

 

[jamil]

That's wonderful. If you have a chance to save up the 60 grand for Princeton each year, by all means do so. Some very bright students who potentially could change the world can't afford that.

But, I suppose they could be looked down upon for not working for it. Always a good way to make sure Nobel Prize winners don't get too uppity.

So now we've gone from free community college to free Princeton?

If education is so vitally important to you, what are you doing to help those very bright students who could potentially change the world, other than advocating someone else's money should pay for it? If you want to help fund bright students' education you don't need the government to do that. If you simply want other people to pay for it, well, I guess you stick with the government solution.

 

[eldirector]

+1 Jamil

A question I often ask my "progressive" peers: if {insert cause} is so important that you want us ALL to chip in for it, how much are you already contributing?

 

[Jludo]

+1 Jamil

A question I often ask my "progressive" peers: if {insert cause} is so important that you want us ALL to chip in for it, how much are you already contributing?

And if they are actually contributing you find their arguments more compelling?

 

[eldirector]

And if they are actually contributing you find their arguments more compelling?

Has yet to happen. I'll let you know.

 

[Alpo]

And you think with Bernies plan they will go to Princeton? Ha.... Is his plan going to spend 60K a year? There are a lot of other colleges out there that are a lot cheaper that are very affordable to individuals who are motivated.

But by all means, use the most extreme examples to try and bolster your argument.

The problem of debating any point with the INGO wolf-pack is that they cover everything from generalizations to ratione extrema.

I find no value here in arguing with those who can't see the broader picture.

I'm going to go watch "Billions".

 

[JollyMon]

The problem of debating any point with the INGO wolf-pack is that they cover everything from generalizations to ratione extrema.

I find no value here in arguing with those who can't see the broader picture.

I'm going to go watch "Billions".

 

[Alpo]

I just can't figure out if your dogpile is a result of all eating at the same Denny's


or

a Bromance......

 

[jamil]

And if they are actually contributing you find their arguments more compelling?

I don't find them as much more compelling as less disingenuous. I'm not classifying Alpo this way because I see him as more of a moderate than a progressive.

But a trait I find most appalling in progressives is that they try to alleviate their own social consciences by voting for other people's sacrifice. There are better solutions to the world's problems than forced redistribution.